StorageSummit

Virtualization & Storage
Storage experts discuss how server virtualization affects storage.
   6 years ago
#StorageSummitKeeping Data ForeverWikibon & Oracle discuss the issues around keeping data forever, incl. tape v. cloud archive debate
   6 years ago
#StorageSummitHybrid Storage ArraysStorage experts discuss the pros & cons of hybrid storage arrays. Are they the best of both worlds?
Dave Vellante
NYC yesterday...DC today - speaking with Oracle IT pros, DBAs and infrastructure folks... http://goo.gl/hnx8Uy

Dave Vellante
several questions today on the reliability of flash
Dave Vellante
The crowd in NYC was highly virtualized - well over half - folks in DC are mum (bunch of NSA guys???)
Oracle Hardware
What has been the impact of virtualization on storage?
Stuart Miniman
are you getting into any cloud discussions? Do they see virtualization as a first step to cloud?
cmosoares
I never thought that virtualization was necessary for cloud, but probably helps
Dave Vellante
@stu - cloud is obviously big in the gov't - seems like the fervor around virtualization is definitely more tepid rel to a few yrs ago
Dave Vellante
@cmosoares I know some guys that don't want a virtualization layer - they want bare metal - even in the cloud believe it or not. I think sometimes virtualization in the cloud benefits the service provider
Stuart Miniman
the low hanging fruit of virtualization has been picked - opportunity is in mission critical applications plus the necessary transformations in storage (SDS) and networking (SDN)
cmosoares
Do you think virtualization has pretty much reached the saturation point?
Kerstin Woods
@stu I agree - now the opportunity is in fine-tuning the infrastructure to handle the virtualization and to speed the applications
Dave Vellante
@cmosoares I don't think it's saturated but it's going to take longer to attack the hard to move apps. The big question is how the public cloud will impact all this
Dave Vellante
@oraclehardware impact of virtualization on storage was initially it broke storage. Then massive integration efforts put a band-aid on the problem and now the industry is trying to make storage "invisible" through the sw-defined theme
Dave Vellante
@chuckhollis has been on a tear writing about SW-defined storage and vsan lately - ServerSAN is another wildcard in that mix as is OpenStack cc: @stu
Oracle Hardware
which apps are typically virtualized and why?
Bob Handlin
I think the greatest fear in clouds is the "noisy neighbor" problem. If the underlying system can't handle a lot of simultaneous users, then you need to isolate to separate hardware. Not very efficient.
Dave Vellante
Yes Bob, it's a big issue - Security in the cloud...many people think it's a "do-over"
Bob Handlin
I think the contention problem is a tougher nut to crack than the security problem -- especially in private clouds.
Jeff Frick
What about segmentation to optimize based on type of workload? compute, io, transaction profile, etc? Can this be done dynmically?
Bob Handlin
@JeffFrick That's the challenge, Jeff. It's all of the above. EMC said as much in their VNX2 launch, but we're already there. You need lots of cache and lots of threading, so you can handle lots of VMs without needing to know in advance what's coming.
Oracle Hardware
Can all storage architectures handle VM workloads equally well?
Oracle Hardware
Not all architectures are created equal: ZS3 is superior for virtualization - SSG-Now Report: http://www.oracle.com/us/products/servers-storage/storage/nas/snapshop-report-analyst-paper-2008431.pdf
cmosoares
ZS3 can support as many as 10,000 VMs per system; EMC announced support for 6,600 for VNX 8000
Dave Vellante
a write to flash first architecture should deal with the IO blender problem better
Oracle Hardware
ZS3 designed for highly virtualized data centers – Taneja Group: Top Performance on Mixed workloads, Unbeatable for Oracle Databases http://www.oracle.com/us/products/servers-storage/storage/nas/taneja-group-zs3-analyst-paper-2008432.pdf
cmosoares
A couple of Wikibon reports point to hybrid, flash-first architectures http://bit.ly/1icydbB http://bit.ly/NYPhn6
Kerstin Woods
Definitely not. Most storage vendors (other than Oracle) don't have enough cache/CPU or an SMP OS to be able to handle random, heavy VM I/O to begin with...not to mention VM-level analytics to be able to resolve VM impacts.
Dave Vellante
I would think dtrace would be an effective tool in finding hot spots in, for example, a vmware situation - the io blender problem makes performance mgt a 'science project' for many customers
Dave Vellante
There are many factors that effect performance, architecture, integration levels but also (very importantly) the application itself and how well it's designed
cmosoares
DTrace part of Oracle ZS3 data services provide highly granular VM-level view of the data stream, so admins can quickly spot the VM(s) that's causing the performance bottleneck. See here http://bit.ly/1m84Rcn
Bob Handlin
@dvellante Large, consolidated virtual environments show off dtrace better than any other workload. Based on the conversations we're having, people aren't thrilled with the analytics on competing storage systems, which are cobbled together.
Dave Vellante
@drew_bratcher what's your experience with devops in the public cloud - are you concerned about the "noisy neighbor" or other security issues?
Drew Bratcher
security is always a priority at scale, but we have had relatively few issues at this stage. As we increase in size these problems will become more relevant and laying proper groundwork to insure we can handle these issues is a priority.
Drew Bratcher
In respect to the noisy neighbor problem in particular, we have definitely noticed AWS stealing time from some smaller machines we overload occasionally, which can be really annoying, but seems effective at making everyone play nice
Bob Handlin
@drew_bratcher AWS is all about low cost. The next phase here is selecting gear (and yes, we think we have it at Oracle) that can do a lot of consolidation without sacrificing service quality.
Dave Vellante
We had a Peer Incite a while back on the Noisy Neighbor problem - here's the outcome of that http://wikibon.org/wiki/v/Quieting_Noisy_Neighbors_In_Cloud_Services
Bob Handlin
Interesting report, Dave. Another way to handle noisy neighbor is what we did inside Oracle IT. They consolidate 2,300 VMs on a single Oracle ZFS storage box that can handle triple that. This leaves a ton of room for bursts and it's easy.
Oracle Hardware
What applications have you virtualized?
Dave Vellante
maybe you should ask what "crapplications" have you virtualized :-)
Kerstin Woods
It used to be virtualization as a test-case for non-mission critical apps, now it's definitely more mainstream
Jeff Frick
@oraclehardware-> When does the conversation flip from "What should we visualize" to "What can't be virtualized?"
Stuart Miniman
@JeffFrick from a technical perspective there should no longer be any barriers to virtualizing any application. That being said, bare metal isn't going away and there are alternatives (such as PaaS) to server virtualization.
Dave Vellante
@KerstinWoods it's funny to see the industry go full circle - IBM mainframes were/are all virtualized
Oracle Hardware
How does virtualization at the server level impact storage?
cmosoares
What's the optimal storage architecture to support highly virtualized environments?
Kerstin Woods
All that consolidation of workloads at the server level definitely has a storage impact - performance, boot storms, lack of VM visibility, distance from the application.
Dave Vellante
Look at the 'mess' the storage industry had to deal with because of server virtualization http://wikibon.org/wiki/v/VSphere_V5_Storage_Integration_Points
cmosoares
What's best? all-flash? Hybrid?
Kerstin Woods
@cmosoares Hybrid is ideal - flash performance with disk cost-efficiency, within that category ZS3 takes the lead @DGIG
https://go.oracle.com/LP=1427?elqCampaignId=3753
cmosoares
A couple of Wikibon reports point to hybrid, flash-first architectures http://bit.ly/1icydbB http://bit.ly/NYPhn6
Oracle Hardware
Who are the leading VM providers in your data center? Do you use multiple hypervisors?
Jeff Frick
KerstinWoods
in a few seconds
Quoted By @JeffFrick
Jeff Frick
mdimouro
RT @oraclehardware: @oraclehardware @Wikibon research: Oracle DB Virtualization reaches 55% and growing: http://wikibon... #storagesummit h…
9 minutes ago
Quoted By @JeffFrick
Dave Vellante
whoellri
a minute ago
Quoted By @dvellante