DOES14

Breaking down the silos and fiefdoms is a huge challenge

most of our challenges are cultural - transitioning from optimizing for cost to optimizing for speed

for best answer to this, read @realgenekim's Phoenix Project :-)

+1 on Phoenix Project, @pDendi. Spot on.

Courtney - Same at Blackboard.

I think the human issues are the most difficult of all: resistance to change, turf wars, politics.

For many traditional organizations, legacy monolithic architectures can become a big imediment

Definitely the people issues are biggest. Aren't they always?

(turf wars)--

@stbrodie That's true for Nordstrom and we're doing what we can to address it, but it's slow...

People naturally want to protect what they have. It's hard to get people to know that letting some stuff go can actually free them up to do things they will enjoy even more.

For larger orgs, I think taking a phased approach starting with a single team or app is a good way to get started, so you can address the challenges in the small.

That said, the startup models of DevOps and CD are extremely challenging to larger enterprises. More moving parts, more politics, more controls, more limitations (or maybe just different ones). Enterprise is different in very real ways.

cooperation over DevOps teams that need to deliver value together!

@stbrodie That's what we did. Started with our customer mobile app team. Demonstrated the value and now we're moving to our in-store technology delivery teams.

@AndiMann Agree 100% Andi! We believe you should start piloting in one area/then. As success is achieved, you can then expand to more groups & applications

We are starting to use SAFe, but I don't like it. To mee it is too much waterfall again

Tool selection matters when making DevOps work in complex enterprise environments

@stbrodie There is a lot of literature on the pace-layered approach too. Either way, I agree - large enterprise simply cannot do a 100% transformation like a 'big bang' release; should take steps instead. Isn't that more simpatico with CI/CD anyway? :)

@JanJoostBouwman We started there too and had the same results - basically we were doing waterfull but calling it agile. Now our focus is continuous flow and it has been successful for our customer mobile team (baby steps)...

yes, @jimensell tools make a big difference. Data virtualization helps eliminate the barrier to environment provisioning for Dev and QA @furrier

@kylehhailey Absolutely! Other tools that are key include CI/CD Automation, Test Automation, Cloud Provisioning, Model-Based Config Management, Service Virtualization & more

@stbrodie And under test automation, mocking and integration frameworks are critical for quick feedback loops.

Courtney, Is that the mobile team that Caitlin Warnock works on? I saw Caitlin's great presentation at FlowCon

@stbrodie Yes! That's the team!

@stbrodie Caitlin will be at #DOES14 too!

For us it isn't flow, but different applications with their own backlogs that need to align to deliver 1 service

Love @mcummings516 "CD == continuous debugging": https://twitter.com/...

I undrrstand the need to align, but it takes away the agility and doesn't help with incident resolution either.

@jimensell Ha, it is like you read my mind ... or my post! http://devops.com/bl...

Negatively. DevOps being so much about culture and collaboration makes outsourcing (not offshoring) extremely difficult and ineffective.

I have an opinion on this; it is impacting outsourcing in negative way bc companies bringing core competency in house; outsourcing (renting) non core assets still

How did Agile affect outsourcing?

@catpoetry anecdotally I saw orgs pull a lot of development back in. I don't have stats.

mobile infrastructure is driving lots of change to force companies not to outsource. Outsource vendors are building full blown clouds

This whold push to automated testing is having a big impact as well

@stbrodie How so?

DevOps creates a positive pressure on outsourcing value-add to move up the chain..away from mundane stuff such as provisioning, config etc

Seeing this big shift from manual testing which was commonly offshored or outsourced

Silos create DevOps problems. Near impossible to outsource part of lifecycle without creating silos.

@stbrodie Agreed - We're in the process of a major switch from outsourced testing to more in-house automation.

DevOps makes outsourcing less of a brute force labor arbitrage play.

DevOps and CD is collaboration and automation. This is very hard to achieve with the outsourced model

@stbrodie Yes, I saw the same thing starting with Agile: the shift away from outsourcing commodity manual testing to devs automating & embedded testers on teams.

Since technology/software/automation is a multiplier the value curve of outsourcing changes. This is the "10x engineer myth" at play.

How much of brining #devops internally is in the ineffective ability to manage it externally?

@tcrawford Tim great to see you

@tcrawford Can you clarify what you mean by managing it externally?

@stbrodie X-function leveraging internal + external resources.

@damonedwards Very true. This is part of the legacy issue that larger enterprises face. Startups simply don't have to deal with insourcing 5000 people from a 3rd-party facility in India.

Startups also have a different problem to solve vs. enterprises. !=