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James Maguire
Q6. What’s a big myth associated with low code / no code?
Ben Lower
A6: You can't build "real" apps with LC/NC. Some ppl think "real" apps require writing code. It's all about creating value for customer and the business and LC/NC apps can do that.
Jon Stevens-Hall
A6: Myth is: They are only used by low-skilled ‘citizen’ developers or it’s too simple or too messy to achieve value.

In reality, it is possible to create very complex business processes elegantly with no code.
Ben Lower
A6: LC/NC apps can't scale. That's not true at all as many of the platforms enable things at broad scale with a broad set of capabilities.
James Maguire
@jonstevenshall So skilled devs are using low code?

(edited)

Eran Kinsbruner
A6: There are few that are running around. Some are around the quality and maintainability of the generated code compared to human coding. Other myths are around LC/NC breaking cross-team collaboration
Ben Lower
A6: LC/NC means no maintenance. That just isn't true as evidenced by some of the conversation that @jonstevenshall started earlier around MS Access.
Eveline Buchatskiy
A6: Low code and no code are in one bucket :) In reality, the user profile, investment, and time to value for the two types of tools are quite different.
Eran Kinsbruner
A6: Low code/No Code cannot scale and be used in complex apps
Jon Stevens-Hall
@jamesmaguire Yes, skilled devs definitely use LC platforms. Rapid prototyping is an obvious example, but if the platform supports the end goals, LC is a good option for many orgs.

(edited)

Ben Lower
@ek121268 there are examples of generated code that works/is maintainable but there are also examples of the opposite. i don't think it's fair to say that's a myth...more that it depends on the particular LC/NC platform/tool. you agree?
James Maguire
@JonStevensHall Good to know. Didn't realize that.
Eran Kinsbruner
@benlower 100% agree that the tools that are used and their maturity as well as their match to the app that's being developed impacts the overall quality and maintainability
Chris Ehrlich
A6: LC requires no ongoing coding or dev ownership. NC requires no set up, integration, or training.
Lawrence Hecht
A6: that professional developers dislike low-code platforms. There is a big disconnect between the old generation (let's say the over 45 year olds) and everyone else. https://www.crowdchat.net/s/16a38
https://www.crowdchat.net/s/16a38

James Maguire
Q5.What about Low code / no code and artificial intelligence? What's the relationship? Growing stronger, or not really?
Jon Stevens-Hall
A5: Low code/no code tools provide access to a common layer of supporting services, with AI-driven services being a growth area. #AI services such as clustering & sentiment analysis can be accessed via standard calls to enable higher value innovation by the developer.
Ben Lower
AI is so hot right now http://gph.is/1jFLtFf?tc=1 via @giphy
https://giphy.com/embed/tBb19eUNiEjBsYeZPhu/twitter/iframe
So Hot Right Now Hansel GIF - Find & Share on GIPHY
So Hot Right Now Hansel GIF - Find & Share on GIPHY
Discover & share this Gopop GIF with everyone you know. GIPHY is how you search, share, discover, and create GIFs.
James Maguire
@benlower LOL! And at the same time, true....
Eran Kinsbruner
A5: I think that the relationship between LC/NC and AI is growing because of expectations. To take the place of a human coder in some cases or expedite his/her work such tool need to be quite intelligent. Tools like https://openai.com/ are an example
https://openai.com/
OpenAI
OpenAI
OpenAI is an AI research and deployment company. Our mission is to ensure that artificial general intelligence benefits all of humanity.
Ben Lower
A5: I'm not sure that there's a great relationship...yet. There are some examples of ppl using GPT3 on Bubble. But does seem like the LC/NC platforms will add more AI/ML as those solutions become more accessible via well-defined APIs.
James Maguire
@ek121268 OpenAI does a lot of cool stuff.
Jon Stevens-Hall
@ek121268 I think #AI capabilities will increasingly differentiate enterprise LC/NC platforms
Eran Kinsbruner
@benlower I believe that the word relationship is a bit misleading here, and perhaps AI extends LC/NC capabilities not as a dependency but rather as an add-on

(edited)

Ben Lower
A5: GitHub Copilot (https://github.com/features/copilot/) comes to mind as an option but is it really "low code" just because it auto programs for you? seems relevant to the LC/NC discussion but might need a new term like "auto code" or something like that.
https://github.com/features/copilot/
GitHub Copilot · Your AI pair programmer
GitHub Copilot · Your AI pair programmer
GitHub Copilot works alongside you directly in your editor, suggesting whole lines or entire functions for you.
Jon Stevens-Hall
@LawrenceHecht This is where a lot of investment is happening by platform vendors, particularly in premium enterprise products.
Lawrence Hecht
A5: there are a lot of nocode integration platforms that help data engineers with the DataOps workflows. There are many visual "IDE" type tools for aspiring data scientists.
Ben Lower
@ek121268 expends or extends? extends makes sense to me if it was a typo. but if not, what do you mean by expends?
Lawrence Hecht
@JonStevensHall a lot of the money is going being wasted. I have a database of vendors in the field.
Eveline Buchatskiy
A5: No direct AI <> LC/NC relationship, but more code faster leads to more access to data lawyers and AI can put this data to good use.
Lawrence Hecht
@JonStevensHall I looked at the topic tangentially in this article, which is based on a Kaggle survey: https://thenewstack.io/where-do-data-practitioners...
Chris Ehrlich
A5: LC can help share and streamline parts of ML/AI modeling, training, and development across teams.
Jon Stevens-Hall
@LawrenceHecht 5 years ago #AI tended to be a science project, but the current generation of AI libraries and services is industrialised and market-ready. Example: clustering and NLP services detect problem trends in support tickets.
James Maguire
Q8. Final question: What else is important about low code development – what else should companies know?
Ben Lower
A8: Basics - a lot of NC/LC tools are not teaching the basics of databases. That seems to be one of the hurdles and something that can be fixed.
Jon Stevens-Hall
A8: Low code is not a substitute for an organization's skills, design, or collaboration capabilities. Low code can be a great way to introduce or improve #DevOps practices, removing some of the low-value toil while also encouraging agility, experimentation & teamwork.
Ben Lower
A8: Even though it’s LC/NC and value is lowering the bar of technical entry so that biz users can be more directly involved, the fact that these biz users ARE becoming more directly involved will raise their bar of technical knowledge and that's positive investment.
Ben Lower
A8: These platforms are being built/updated quite quickly, so make sure to go back to tools that you tested / POCed after every couple of quarters.
Lawrence Hecht
A8: did we mention staffing skills, open source and the fact that there are too many platforms? Right now we can't train a workforce on any specific vendor's tools
Chris Ehrlich
A8: LC/NC can be competitive advantages if they’re broadly adopted internally with buy-in and used for dev efficiencies and business intelligence.
Eran Kinsbruner
A8: At the end of the day organizations build products for their clients that must be secure, safe, high performing and high quality as well as accessible. If you properly run a POC for the tools covering all of these requirements you are in a good starting point
Lawrence Hecht
@LawrenceHecht there are 100s of platforms, each of them trying to train and certify people.
Eveline Buchatskiy
A8: The need for security is not going away. Democratized development still needs its own set of rules at the company level to ensure compliance.
James Maguire
Q7. The future of low code? Where will we be in 3-5 years?
Jon Stevens-Hall
A7: #AI will be deployed increasingly at the point of development – “co-pilot” assistance will enable more reduction of lower value “toil” & open up new suggestions & insights to enable developers to harness platform capabilities to #innovate & get better results.
James Maguire
@jonstevenshall Sounds like that will certainly come true.
Ben Lower
A7: NLP coding would be really cool. “Can we change our getTotal API call to return a number rounded to 2 decimal places?” -> system identifies the API call, finds it in code, finds and returns the transformed value.
Eran Kinsbruner
A7: I like @jamesmaguire use of co-pilot and I think that such tools will be merged into the tech stack of engineering teams like any other tools. In addition the maturity of the tools will grow more towards autonomous NC generation with greater confidence
James Maguire
@benlower Natural language processing sounds very cool. Code while you're on your Peleton....
Ben Lower
haha that would be cool but also terrifying to think we would expect ppl to always be on/productive :)
Eveline Buchatskiy
A7: Demystified, mass adopted, helping close the IT talent gap, considered a basic skill the same way command of MS suite, with also a parallel ecosystem/economy of freelancers that are savvy in many of these tools.
Jon Stevens-Hall
I'm a Zwift person myself... but not when it's 100 degrees farenheit in the UK...
Chris Ehrlich
A7: LC platforms and practices will become standard to deal with talent shortage, rate of data growth, and sheer scale of emerging tech, such as AI. NC will be demanded by departments for their teams to capture and act on data.
Lawrence Hecht
@JonStevensHall heck, the real point of @OpenAI is to create services developers can use for their apps. For LC/NC, the relevant point is that they create consistent architectures and workflows that can be replicated and audited.