
John Furrier56
















Is Automation in a place that is good or is there more work needed?
James Fryman
There is so much more work needed. We are a lot further along than we were, say 10 years ago, but there are still serious challenges with parts of the stack still not having good API access, humans are still doing too much manual work, etc.

Evan Powell
Yes :) W/o automation "it" does not happen. But we have seen automation become a run away nightmare. Step one one troubleshooting for example - "turn off the automation"

Patrick Hoolboom
There will ALWAYS be more work needed in automation...but I do believe we are at an inflection point. Adoption will increase quickly as will power.

Lori MacVittie
Automation is just the beginning. Operational process optimization takes more than just automation and it should be a stretch goal for devops if it isn't already.

Lori MacVittie
Automation is just the beginning. Operational process optimization takes more than just automation and it should be a stretch goal for devops if it isn't already.

ThirdWave Insights
@lmacvittie Your point on process optimization is important... Automating a task is quite different from automating a significant portion of a life cycle.

John Furrier
@jfryman do you think orchestration is fantasy til automation moves along or can it be parallel dev paths?

Patrick Hoolboom
@lmacvittie Process optimization in Operations will be huge. Codifying process to abstract out patterns will be key. Eliminate unnecessary cruft while promoting actions with highest value return.

Lori MacVittie
@3rdwaveinsights Yes yes YES. Processes are not tasks... but that distinction goes along with viewing ops as an integrated entity rather than as a discrete set of functions being managed ;-)

Lori MacVittie
@3rdwaveinsights IOW, we're a ways off from getting to a systems view of ops. But at least we're on the right path...

Evan Powell
@lmacvittie @3rdwaveinsights Got it, I think. @phool_stormer sometimes talks about open sourcing (via automation code) your ops patterns. Which suggests you better first know what they are. Similar thought?
James Fryman
@lmacvittie +1. I think that these actually play hand-in-hand. Good automation really looks at solving the problem based on the workflow, finding choke points, and eliminating the problem with automation. Process optimization is a natural next step.
James Fryman
I think they happen in parallel. Automation really only focuses on the micro (task, at a domain level), and orchestration on the macro (tasks assembled to accomplish a unit of work).
James Fryman
having the workflow documented is the first step, and in my mind that constitutes a basic orchestration of sorts (manual + automatic steps) that then informs your priority/goals of automation

ThirdWave Insights
@lmacvittie As you said, we are way off getting a systems view...deeper discussions about the science behind "devops" rather than just culture is creating the right paht.

Lori MacVittie
@AndiMann +1 I like that hierarchy, I think it logically extrapolates from one step to the next.

Lori MacVittie
@AndiMann If we look to BPO and its evolution it's easier to see the progression. They've already done this... so has dev through Six Sigma...