Clouderati on DevOps
Who will beat AWS in enterprise cloud? Top thought leaders discuss the news around cloud #devops
   10 years ago
#devopsClouderati on DevOpsThought leader conversation on DevOps and Cloud. People and tools - good patterns v. anti-patterns
Surendra Reddy
What will be the impact of net neutrality ruling on the cloud services?
Maish Saidel-Keesing (☁️🚀☁️🚀☁️)
Is there such a thing as net neutrality???
Tim Crawford
I don't think the impact to enterprises is fully understood.
Chris Swan
too early to call.. that ruling is just one skirmish in just one battle of a wider war
Mark Thiele he/him I agree. I think most folks will take a wait and see approach. As in "wait and see if someone gets burned"
Diane Mueller
the key is in the portability of @docker containers, that's what will drive the net neutrality
Chris Swan isn't that deployment neutrality (which is a good thing)?
Joe Baguley Really? Traffic will still be shaped...
Diane Mueller if net neutrality is about control of the pipeline; the freedom to deploy where ever is key
Krish Subramanian
Too early as Chris said
Tim Crawford
I do wonder if the Net Neutrality ruling will increase the drive for cloud verticals and/or vertical offerings more than in the past.
John Furrier
another regulation and deep packet inspection QoS bottleneck to deal with.. might be opportunity for #SDN maybe.. not my wheelhouse but that's my opinion
Surendra Reddy Software Defined Net neutrality :)
Joe Baguley
Will we see the rise of multiple alternate new 'free' networks? Is this the dawn of some post-apocalyptic multi-internet of fridges?
Chris Swan mesh networks will be a big deal for IoT, and we're already on the swing away from a centralised model (what we presently call cloud) to something more distributed. Smaller containers like Docker will accelerate the process.
Chris Swan
worst case is we will see the incumbents in the service provider world start to employ regulatory capture in the same way large firms before them have - pulling the ladder up behind them to prevent innovation
Tim Crawford
Remember that NN doesn't necessarily drive us back to fully private environments in our own DC. There are new options today.
Chris Swan also subsidised data for services is more likely to impact B2C world than B2B
Joe Baguley
All new methods of traffic encapsulation will be invented, and further abstraction from the carriers. It will not go the way they want it to.
Chris Swan seems like carriers are trying to double dip. No good reason they should be allowed to do that.
John Furrier love to get Martin Casado's perspective here or @randybias he was pushing something in #openstack around #SDN
Tim Crawford Carriers need new revenue sources to maintain growth. They haven't had that for a while and take a bite at everything they can.
Kurt Milne
most likely will have to pay for top performance cloud to cloud connectivity
Chris Swan hence direct connect
Maish Saidel-Keesing (☁️🚀☁️🚀☁️) It is no different from what we have today - quality network pipes cost major $$$
Surendra Reddy
there is lot of data fusion taking place in the core of the cloud but more of the action is at the edge of network - still controlled by carriers.
John Furrier I like the data fusion vision very relevant
Surendra Reddy internet of everything, sensors-everywhere, smart transportation, learning engines in the cloud would transform the cloud as the brains for intelligence.. but still that intelligence need to be given to the consumers on demand...
Surendra Reddy @furrier data fusion is meaningless if insights can be delivered to edge devices/users real-time...
Tim Crawford Love the data fusion story, but there is quite a bit of distance between the mechanics and value.
Maish Saidel-Keesing (☁️🚀☁️🚀☁️) I am starting to think there is such a thing as "Too much Data"....
Kurt Milne
Maybeit gives those cloud service providers who also own the pipes competitive differentiation??
Tim Crawford This is a key opportunity for CSP to partner w/ DC/Backbone providers. Ecosystem is key.
Joe Baguley Like Google?
Mark Thiele he/him "Owning" the pipes isn't necessarily the best approach. A better approach is to broker cost effective access to dozens. "Ecosystem"
Chris Swan perhaps they might start selling call options on bandwidth rather than the puts that are all you can get from telcos at the moment
John Furrier
'If it moves tax it, if it keeps moving regulate it, if it stops moving, subsidize it' - Ronald Reagan via my friend on FB Frank Slootman this morning
John Furrier
ok - Now be honest ..Where is VMware in all this? Can they clear the runway on hybrid? Is #Cloudfoundry helping or hurting?
Joe Baguley
I'm right here... ;-)
John Furrier I want the crowd to clear the air on #vmware
Joe Baguley I'm happy to see that!
Tim Crawford
Better question first: Is Pivotal really part of VMware?
Joe Baguley Part owned? Yes. Part of the Family? Yes Part of the strategy? Yes.
#Cloudfoundry a non factor - more interesting is what they do with Savvis
Mark Thiele he/him
VMW has 300K customers, they'll have success with Hybrid SP offerings by accident. But heterogeneity is still a gap
Joe Baguley >40M VMs running in customers today, they will all end up somewhere...
John Furrier VMW customer base is gold that is why I see this containerization trend very interesting..
Krish Subramanian
I will PaaS this question to stay away from *direct* competitor
Tim Crawford
If VMW wants to truly parlay their existing base, they need to amp up their partner strategy.
Maish Saidel-Keesing (☁️🚀☁️🚀☁️) That is very hard when you are competing with your partners - i.e. VCHS
Tim Crawford @maishsk How much of vCHS though was ensuring the VMW could check the box?
Mark Thiele he/him
I see Pivotal becoming the point & thereby used as the tool for driving business to EMC & VMware down the road.
Maish Saidel-Keesing (☁️🚀☁️🚀☁️) I think most people have yet to understand what kind of disruption the potential of an EMC, Pivotal and VMware entity will cause to this market.
Dan Hushon I am still waiting for "Data PaaS" emergence from @Pivotal... the key thing holding us back is the data that is needed to enable context.
John Furrier Pivotal is boiling over the ocean imo they need focus. The mkt is moving too fast #AWS is introducing like 2 new products a day now
Crowd Captain
@jerrychen says @docker could be the next VMware for the cloud ..
Stuart Miniman
while it is early, vCHS isn't taking the market by storm - hard to see where channel can add value and make money on it and customers have alternatives. CF is making progress, separate market from vCHS
Chris Swan Lack of on demand pricing has to be part of the problem
Maish Saidel-Keesing (☁️🚀☁️🚀☁️) CloudFoundry is whole different concept to Public cloud - the same way @docker is
Joe Baguley Very, very early days, much still to come in the next 12 months alone...
Stuart Miniman @JoeBaguley agreed it is early days. I'm OK saying that it's not dead yet ;)
Crowd Captain @plantenReport
@stu @furrier Stu you are being very kind to vCHS #nomomentum
4 minutes ago
Tim Crawford
You're not taking legacy workloads out of VMW and directly moving them to CF or Public Cloud. There is quite a bit of heavy lifting to be done.
Diane Mueller the containerization that docker brings will go quite a long way to mitigating the heavy lifting of legacy apps to the cloud
Tim Crawford @pythondj Containerization that @docker brings is a great start! There is still quite a bit of education to be done too.
Mark Thiele he/him
Without further aggressive development, I fear CloudFoundry will be the VMware version of the Computer Mouse to Zerox.
... you mean the 3-button Computer Mouse?
Joe Baguley Being next door to PARC is a good reminder of history...
David Coursey
Is this a technology or a marketing question? Does cloud eventually become two or three large players and a collection of niche providers? If so, who wins? Maybe the question is how long Docker remains independent?
Krish Subramanian
Cloud will be like Airline industry. There will be some major players but many regional ones
David Coursey And the regional ones will be owned by the majors but branded differently? I think in airlines this is a response to regulation.
Chris Swan I hope we don't end up hating our CSPs as much as most people hate their airlines
Brian Fanzo Regional or industry specific.. example: Enterprise Cloud & Government Clouds..
Mark Thiele he/him
There is still room for disruption here, but there will likely be several big players as @krishnan describes.
Chris Swan
Well... AWS is killing it, and seems to be pulling further ahead rather than competitors catching up. Huge no. of new services just last quarter.
... we were thinking no company can catchup to Microsoft back in the days - AWS will get disrupted too...
John Furrier I just said the same thing
John Furrier
#AWS is crushing it beyond all recognition others catching up. I like the alternative cloud for enterprise bc AWS hasn't cracked that code yet but with kinesis they are close
Chris Swan Verizon is making an interesting play for enterprise features - particularly networks and quality of service with their new cloud
Krish Subramanian
It will not be owned by major players. With Open Source platforms lowering the barrier to entry, you will see regional ones cropping up meeting needs beyond regulatory requirements
David Coursey
Gee, when will Facebook, Google, PayPal and eBay get disrupted?
David Coursey Or Amazon in the retail space? Once people choose these days, things can be decided for a very long time. Microsoft Office, anyone?
Mark Thiele he/him
There are at least two players that have a chance in the Enterprise right now @Virtustream & HP(?). Virtustream seems best positioned.
John Furrier
Google, Facebook, AWS, Microsoft = top clouds the rest are pretenders
Joe Baguley Today, yes, tomorrow - who knows?
Mark Thiele he/him I know those are the names we all recognize, but there are others. We're still at 5% of addressable market with Cloud 1.x solutions
... I do believe SPs will have a bigger role - unfortunately, no great technology choices available yet for them.
Vanessa Alvarez
I also believe we'll see vertical clouds e.g. what we saw w/NYSE is a start, but will also see similar in healthcare (ins provider?) retail (walmart?) who understand their business, and its requirements
David Coursey How much will that be raw technology that is industry specific and how much support, apps, and approach?
Surendra Reddy Oracle, SAP are also repositioning themselves are vertical cloud service providers...
John Cowan Dunno about that. Do you know how Nasdaq and NYSE Tech (just divested by ICE, btw) are doing with their big ideas?
John Furrier
First question: can @docker new container model compete against #aws for the enterprise in #cloudops???
Krish Subramanian
Docker is not competing against AWS but rather enabling others to build AWS like higher order abstractions
John Furrier do you think that they can win that game or just be another open source play?
Mark Thiele he/him
I think @docker & containers in general are a significant opportunity space for cloud infrastructure design.
Joe Baguley
They are another enabler of choice, which is key
John Furrier do you see openstack at risk here or accelerated?
Joe Baguley OpenStack is just another IaaS that Docker will be indifferent to.
Surendra Reddy @furrier i see openstack as a programmable interface to infrastructure and Dockers is a lightweight execution containers whcih can be provisioned through Openstack interface.
Chris Swan
I see Docker and AWS at such different granularities that it's not a competition. They fit fine together.
Mark Thiele he/him
@Docker doesn't compete with AWS. However, building better abstraction above HPC type infrastructure designs will drive up perf & drive down cost.
Diane Mueller
docker runs bare metal, OpenStack clusters, public clouds - it doesn't compete with AWS
Surendra Reddy YARN/Hadoop, Openstack, and Dockers -- great combination to run true enterprise workloads..
Chris Swan
I'm hearing a lot of enterprises get excited about Docker. The same enterprises that have struggled to adopt public cloud.
Joe Baguley And their struggle was often due to resistance to process change, so that will go well... ;-)
Chris Swan @furrier they can have their cake and eat it by being able to deploy to Docker inside the corp firewall and outside
Diane Mueller enterprises have apps with lots of dependencies that take alot of time to build and maintain, containers ala docker style are a great way forward for them
Surendra Reddy
docker enables new class applications that favors lightweight container model like big data or high performance applications.
Vanessa Alvarez
I don't necessarily see Docker competing with AWS, 2 different scenarios, but I do see Docker abstracting infrastructure in general, further commoditizing, and making it easier to deploy, etc
Mark Thiele he/him
Automation in the data center is still a big girl/boy game, what tools & strategies are there for the mid-tier and smaller companies?
Joe Baguley
It will increasingly become inherent in the stack over time, just part of what you do.
Chris Swan exactly - part of the OS, part of the furniture
Maish Saidel-Keesing (☁️🚀☁️🚀☁️)
Do smaller companies really need it? The amount of resources needed to go all in on automation is not justified if you are not the right scale.
Mark Thiele he/him That's really the point. However, as traditional IT roles are phased out for new Cloud oriented work, how with the little guys play without giving up everything?
Tim Crawford In the basic sense, the #SMB doesn't need it. But it levels the playing field to play w/ the big boys.
Joe Baguley The little guys don't give up anything, they will need these tools as they will have to manage more things with the same number of people...
Maish Saidel-Keesing (☁️🚀☁️🚀☁️) @mthiele10 They have hit the ground running and try and keep up - it is not easy - becuase they are trying to keep their heads above water
Tim Crawford
This is where the #MSP & CSP needs to step up their game. It is a huge opportunity for those who understand (and are willing to take) it.
Micha Hernandez v L.
I'm a bit biased (as the founder) but this is what we're trying to solve with @wercker; starting with continuous delivery in the toolchain
Chris Riley ☁
I'm not sure. Especially when you consider tools like Puppet, Chef and Vagrant which anyone can start using.
Chris Swan and Docker will surely add to that list. I can get a whole lot of Docker containers on a VM on a tiny SMB MicroServer
Micha Hernandez v L. we use these kind of systems as well, I do believe there is large opportunity to solve these challenges at a higher abstraction level
Tim Crawford We have to move beyond just Puppet & Chef in terms of automation and abstraction.
Mark Thiele he/him Tools like this have always been available, but few can afford the luxury of staffing to design tools that have a value measured in 1-6 hours a week of saved time.
Diane Mueller private PaaS is a much more elegant solution, requires less script maintenance and scales
Diane Mueller and Private PaaS with docker support maximizes automation & abstraction
Diane Mueller
deploying private PaaS is a huge enabler for mid-tier & smaller companies, get the same efficiencies with as big guns w/ @openshift on-premise
Chris Riley ☁ agree based on the type of application, but for LOB applications this wont work, for Web Apps, sure.
Automation doesn't have to be, initial investment can be, but amortizes away in the long run
Chris Swan
'sudo docker run -d supplier/thing' and wait for the magic to happen
rdump, rtar aww yes, the glory days