ALLFlash

Real Conversation Flash
A Real Conversation on Flash: Tier-1 requirements and mainstreaming of #AllFlash #HPDiscover
   7 years ago
#ALLFlashThe End of a Storage EraThe End of a Storage Era: HP Storage Announcement; CoffeeTalk with Manish
Chris M Evans
Coming to the top of the hour here. Going to try and summarise the thoughts on this thread.
Jeff Frick
> Summaries are good. The raw data survives too.
Chris M Evans
Flash is maturing - needs mature features including data protection, data optimisation
Dave Vellante
great ?'s Chris - well done keeping the conversation going - rapid fire
Chris M Evans
Prices are dropping, pushing the move to an all-flash data centre in the not too distant future.
Chris M Evans
There's a 2 tier set of requirements - performance and capacity
Chris M Evans
There's still work around apps/hypervisor optimisation needed.
John Furrier
. @chrismevans great chat today packed with data and great insight thanks Chris
Chris M Evans
The discussion should be on customer requirements, not on pureness of "architecture".
Chris M Evans
Features like QoS will be doubly important for cloud deployments
Jeff Frick
> Workloads > Horses for Courses
http://horse-breeds....
Storage Godfather (HPEStorageGuy)
Definitely - if you can't show how an architecture solves problems, don't bring your PowerPoints to the customer.
Chris M Evans
Thought 1: Requirements for T1 systems; with all flash, low latency and high throughput are a given; but what about other features - data protection, data optimisation? Host Support?
Chris M Evans
What do you think is a key requirement?
John Furrier
the important data is stored on more expensive, higher performing storage systems while less critical data is stored on less expensive, lower performing storage is very key
Chris M Evans
@furrier Tiering is still valid in an all-flash world, John?
John Furrier
I don't think tiering will go away anytime soon but flash changes the game for sure
Enrico Signoretti
one of the most important characteristics is predictability. especially under heavy workloads.
Adam Wick
1. For T1 Flash Requirements - can your infrastructure keep up with the SSD speed? A 500 HP engine in a Toyota is going to bust the axle. 3PAR ASIC technology helps!!!
Chris M Evans
@esignoretti Great point Enrico, no benefit in having low latency if it is not consistent.
Enrico Signoretti
QoS is also becoming fundamental for certain use cases. especially when various workloads are involved not only for multitenancy.
Enrico Signoretti
Predictability+QoS are more important than Tiering now. for Tier-1 Arrays.
Enrico Signoretti
Flash is already considered mainstream for T1 workloads/apps. and Flash+Trash strategy is gaining traction.
Chris M Evans
@furrier That makes data mobility a key requirement then.
Chris M Evans
@esignoretti QoS - agreed, this is truly deliverable in all-flash
Storage Godfather (HPEStorageGuy)
I think picking one is tough - forces tradeoffs that customers don't want to make. No compromises or no flash.
Enrico Signoretti
@CalvinZito Automated data protection is the key. especially in large environments (private clouds)
Chris M Evans
@esignoretti Automated data protection or efficient data protection?
Enrico Signoretti
Both. one doesn't mean you doesn't eliminate the other. Storage-level backup can ease a lot of processes, especially if you can use APIs to program it. thinking about private clouds, of course
Chris M Evans
@esignoretti The right tools are needed though - array-based integration for data protection for definite.
Chris M Evans
Is the ASIC technology still valid? Other vendors have removed ASICs from their platforms.
Storage Godfather (HPEStorageGuy)
What a great question - one of my 3PAR experts actually has a blog post that will go live today that answers this.
Storage Godfather (HPEStorageGuy)
Literally just posted a blog that addresses this. A few competitors have tried to say ASIC is not needed.. http://h30507.www3.h...
Chris M Evans
Thought 6: Should flash systems be used for backup/data protection, or is that just crazy thinking? can the business benefit be justified, or can the problem be solved more intelligently?
Brad Parks
Much like replication it's worth rethinking backup architecture in a sub-ms world. Why modernize one w/o rethinking the other
John Furrier
I'm not sure bc the media reliability issue. tape is still viable. the question this begs is what dies first spinning disk or tape; we alway talk about this on theCUBE
Chris M Evans
@furrier What about flash as the metadata/index component? Surely this has value and could be justified?
TM Arun Kumar
should be?or will it be? Two separate questions. It perhaps should be. But, certainly not so soon.
John Furrier
yes absolutely the meta data issue is massive oppty to innovate around for apps
Storage Godfather (HPEStorageGuy)
@furrier That is an interesting question. If I had to bet, I think spinning disk. Tape as a low cost archive tier is growing in capacity. Can't say that for HDDs.
Dave Vellante
@StorageMonger brad is right on - flash provides an opportunity to re-think data protection
Chris M Evans
@StorageMonger I think we've separated/isolated backup & primary storage for too long.
Jeff Frick
@CalvinZito > Never forget Amara's law,
"We tend to overestimate the effect of a technology in the short run and underestimate the effect in the long run" but with Flash, market seems to be underestimating the short run impact as well.
Enrico Signoretti
Flash can be used efficiently to store latest backup nad metadata. but in this case the large-size HDD or Cloud still have a huge role.
Leo Leung
as @esignoretti says: with a "native" architecture, use whatever media makes sense. we use flash today for low latency (lookups) and magnetic for capacity. balance the economics.
Chris M Evans
Thought 12: Perhaps the terms all-flash and hybrid are wrong. Perhaps we should be saying "dynamic" and "static" architectures. If you are dynamic, you can easily replace the storage medium.
Storage Godfather (HPEStorageGuy)
I don't know but I did learn the hard way that "on-premise" is wrong.
Dave Vellante
@CalvinZito - Tucci still says "on-premise" :-) but andy jasse changed his language (along w calvin and me) :-)
Dave Vellante
I think All-flash and Hybrid are sticking near term - easy for IDC and Gartner to segment :-)
Chris M Evans
Dynamic architectures are the way forward. I see some vendors getting stung big-time without building/acquiring new products; a portfolio of flash offerings anyone?
Storage Godfather (HPEStorageGuy)
But seriously, I think we (vendors) are our own worst enemy by using terms differently. Confuses customers and creates industry conflict.
Keith Townsend - Light will overcome darkness
Does AFA term scare away potential customer? I have a fixed perception of AFA.
Leo Leung
architecture is important for vendors and for customers looking for a horizon on the products they buy. that's different from market sizing @dvellante ;)
Jeff Frick
> One constant for sure, the demand for MORE FASTER storage will only grow. Can you say Periscope?
Storage Godfather (HPEStorageGuy)
@dvellante Here's what I don't get with that - if it's only in one place, why isn't it on-premise. If I have tape in house in one place, that isn't on-premises. :P
John Furrier
I love dynamic static - I hate the term data lake bc it sound static vs data ocean dynamic - it's about the workloads at the end of the day. Work loads will reside everywhere so categorically dynamic and static are not environment dependent
Storage Godfather (HPEStorageGuy)
@virtualizedgeek Talk more about that - why is it scary? AFA means an array with all flash. The details about capabilities are what need deeper discussion but that's true for almost any technology solution.
Enrico Signoretti
as I said, hybrid is losing its meaning.
Keith Townsend - Light will overcome darkness
@CalvinZito If you aren't deep into storage then you hear "AFA can slow down your apps if you don't know what you doing." Where an hybrid array makes sense to the people I have to sell on the concept.
Chris M Evans
@virtualizedgeek AFA=Marketing. New segment, new opportunity.