serversan

Scalable Infrastructure
Chat with thought leaders, analysts, and customers on new server/storage architecture
   9 years ago
#ServerSanHyperconverged InfrastructureSharing new Wikibon Server SAN research and interactive Q&A
Barry Ader
One of the key things that #ServerSAN gives you is elasticity. The ability to easily grow the "SAN" by simply adding more compute and/or storage on the fly
Jesse St. Laurent
The idea of data migration is often overlooked. Customers are telling me they spend 3+ months rolling in new storage and another 3 rolling it out. Scale out / scale in without a manual migration is a BIG deal
Howard Marks
At today's level of sophistication I'm kinda doubious that I really want 100 servers running storage software across them rather than 2-3 TinTris. What's going to be easier to manage?
Barry Ader
agreed. Also capacity planning becomes much less of an issue You no longer need to plan years in advance for how much storage you need
Enrico Signoretti
So, to recap. ServerSAN is enabled by CPU Power+10Gbe+efficient software+Flash. I would like to add "strong integration with S.O or Hypervisor"
Rodger Burkley
Yes...but do not forget the advanced software algorithms and trick meta data manipulations, etc. We've had CPU power and 10 10Gbe (and Infiniband) for some time. Flash also must be considered too, as you say.
Stuart Miniman
some solutions can work across physical and virtual environments - flexibility is a good thing
Enrico Signoretti
@NoamShen totally agree. but some solutions aren't efficient enough today to manage all the RAID calculations.
Noam Shendar
Moore's law takes care of that very quickly
Rodger Burkley
Right...so advanced features like inline dedupe or analytics can be added to the Server San layer
Rodger Burkley
One also has to wonder about Server SAN's ability to handle all the I/Os + compute without inducing latencies and perf degradations too...\
John F. Kim Having a high-bandwidth, low-latency interconnect is critical as the number of Server SAN nodes increases.
David Floyer
Server SAN has an additional benefit over traditional SAN - processing power can be moved to the data as well as the traditional model of moving the data to the processors. This gives potential flexibility of application design and fungibility of resources
Howard Marks
I think as we start talking about applications integration into the software storage layer we're getting into that hyperscale 1 architect across the entire infrastructure. Mortals buy apps that need standard interfaces
David Floyer Howard - True, it starts as standard interfaces. However, I would expect database systems (including Hadoop) to be able to take advantage of Server SAN architecture early on. The vendors will need to develop the capabilities for hyperscale.
Howard Marks
In terms of interfaces I'm looking most forward to T10 standardizing Atomic-write and having that pass on to the storage system, Full VAAI/ODX support for per-VM snapshots too,
Enrico Signoretti
@JesseStLaurent 10Gb+Flash but efficient software as well. w/out all the three components it's quite impossibile to have a good architecture.
Noam Shendar
Yep. Careful software optimization of the datapath is a must (and a lot of work)
Jesse St. Laurent
We can not ignore the impact of ever faster Intel CPUs either
David Nicholson
and 40Gb for some applications
Enrico Signoretti 40GB at the node level is too much at the moment. But I agree that some vertical like HPC can take the maximum advantage from that
David Nicholson
40g for selected nodes can make sense even today
Rodger Burkley
Also, Server SAN's lay the groundwork for taking advantage of non-Von Neuman compute architectures and true parallel processing...some day...
Rodger Burkley
Perhaps server San term relies implies/assumes or requires some degree of 'intelligent software management' of the stack. That's the secret sauce and key enabler...regardless of whether the SFW is tied to an appliance or server or whatever.
Kevin Deierling
So it is a Scalable Server-Storage Cluster? Seems perfect for converged infrastructure interconnect and aligned with Open Compute Platform, right?
Jesse St. Laurent
The challenge is that cluster is another completely overloaded word. Especially in a VMware environment.
Dave Vellante
I like that phrase Kevin - Scalable Server Storage Cluster - did you invent that?
David Nicholson
Open Compute for some, vendor-engineered for others. Some will build, others will buy.
Enrico Signoretti
ServerSAN is disruptive.VSAs (and server-side caching) can really do the hard part of the job leaving the hardware only the physical layer to mange (storing data nd RAID)
Noam Shendar
And even RAID is going software...
Stuart Miniman
Commoditization of hardware is definitely a theme here too - what's the role of hw in a scalable architecture?
Noam Shendar
Its role is to be as cheap as possible. Software takes care of reliability. In fact, at scale only software can achieve that
Howard Marks
It;s not so much Commoditization as general advancement. x86 servers have been essentially interchangeable for a decade. Today there's excess performance in processor, SSD and 10Gbps network so let's use it for storage.
Gabriel Chapman
consistency of experience and performance, as well as supportability or a "verified platform"
Kendrick Coleman
the problem becomes the user thinking they can build servers from scratch. you're still going to need a source of procurement for warranty and interoperability
Rodger Burkley
The issue with SFW RAID and other software defined storage models was always one of less performance...till now it seems
Noam Shendar
Yes, general purpose CPUs have gotten so powerful this has become a non-issue
Barry Ader Exactly!!. It is clearly one of the reasons why storage services can be delivered in the server. "The world is flat, again"!
John F. Kim Agree! Nearly all proprietary arrays use software on general purpose CPU, only a few models still have proprietary silicon.
David Nicholson Fast, cheap server interconnects help also. No #serversan without the SAN part. :-)
Howard Marks
There have been 2 big reasons Software storage was slow. 1 - Not enough disks/controller 2 - Synchronous mirroring across slow Ethernet. SSD fixes first, 10Gbps Ethernet the second
John F. Kim Or 40Gb Ethernet and 56Gb InfiniBand for sync replication (shameless plug for my company's wares)
Jesse St. Laurent I completely agree. None of this is possible without 10GbE and flash
Jesse St. Laurent
The data redundancy is now being delivered in software, now the question is how to deliver high performance data efficiency (dedupe, compression, optimization). We always want something more that what software offers.
Lee Johns
So many cores to play with there is no need for dedicated ASICs etc like 3PAR. New platforms can handle RAID and data optimization like compression and dedupe in SW. Aided by SSD.
Dave Vellante will be interesting to watch - obviously the chaps at HP/3PAR don't agree
Storage Godfather (HPEStorageGuy) David Scott has said that he has the engineering team justify keeping the ASIC with each new release of HP 3PAR ASIC. They're a smart team and will make the right choices.