StorageSummit

Virtualization & Storage
Storage experts discuss how server virtualization affects storage.
   10 years ago
#StorageSummitKeeping Data ForeverWikibon & Oracle discuss the issues around keeping data forever, incl. tape v. cloud archive debate
   10 years ago
#StorageSummitHybrid Storage ArraysStorage experts discuss the pros & cons of hybrid storage arrays. Are they the best of both worlds?
Oracle Hardware
If you consolidate servers with virtualization are you also consolidating the storage?
Dave Vellante
in my experience these were separate initiatives/projects
Oracle Hardware
What about virtual desktops - any storage impact to address?
Dave Vellante
Well VDI and EUC are a whole set of different requirements - the Desktop/laptop user is doing a lot of updates...boot storms...mobile has diff requirements...server virt and DT/VDI/EUC are 2 diff animals imo
cmosoares
Boot storms are a serious issue that many storage architectures can't handle
Dave Vellante
@cmosoares flash flash and more flash?
Dave Vellante
@stu so was all this VAAI and VASA stuff just a stop gap until SW-defined came along?
Stuart Miniman
it's more of a fork in the road - VVOLs are targeted at simplifying the VAAI/VASA stuff. Then there are the alternatives that are VM-aware - the SDS, VSAN, etc.
Bob Handlin
I think VMware figured out a long time ago that virtualization is a storage problem. The APIs that followed were about getting more insight.
Oracle Hardware
Can all storage architectures handle VM workloads equally well?
Oracle Hardware
Not all architectures are created equal: ZS3 is superior for virtualization - SSG-Now Report: http://www.oracle.com/us/products/servers-storage/storage/nas/snapshop-report-analyst-paper-2008431.pdf
cmosoares
ZS3 can support as many as 10,000 VMs per system; EMC announced support for 6,600 for VNX 8000
Dave Vellante
a write to flash first architecture should deal with the IO blender problem better
Oracle Hardware
ZS3 designed for highly virtualized data centers – Taneja Group: Top Performance on Mixed workloads, Unbeatable for Oracle Databases http://www.oracle.com/us/products/servers-storage/storage/nas/taneja-group-zs3-analyst-paper-2008432.pdf
cmosoares
A couple of Wikibon reports point to hybrid, flash-first architectures http://bit.ly/1icydbB http://bit.ly/NYPhn6
Kerstin Woods
Definitely not. Most storage vendors (other than Oracle) don't have enough cache/CPU or an SMP OS to be able to handle random, heavy VM I/O to begin with...not to mention VM-level analytics to be able to resolve VM impacts.
Dave Vellante
I would think dtrace would be an effective tool in finding hot spots in, for example, a vmware situation - the io blender problem makes performance mgt a 'science project' for many customers
Dave Vellante
There are many factors that effect performance, architecture, integration levels but also (very importantly) the application itself and how well it's designed
cmosoares
DTrace part of Oracle ZS3 data services provide highly granular VM-level view of the data stream, so admins can quickly spot the VM(s) that's causing the performance bottleneck. See here http://bit.ly/1m84Rcn
Bob Handlin
@dvellante Large, consolidated virtual environments show off dtrace better than any other workload. Based on the conversations we're having, people aren't thrilled with the analytics on competing storage systems, which are cobbled together.
Oracle Hardware
Has storage kept up with increases in virtualization adoption?
Oracle Hardware
Dragon Slayer report: The End of general-Purpose Storage
http://www.oracle.com/us/products/servers-storage/storage/nas/dragonslayer-app-integrated-zfs-1
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Kerstin Woods
Can you please repost that link? Didn't get the full URL.
Oracle Hardware
The End of General-Purpose Storage: http://bit.ly/13LnpoL
Kerstin Woods
Thanks for the URL - agree with it - today's general purpose storage hasn't kept up, just created workarounds to try to weed through the virtualization mess when really what we need is application engineering.
Oracle Hardware
How does virtualization at the server level impact storage?
cmosoares
What's the optimal storage architecture to support highly virtualized environments?
Kerstin Woods
All that consolidation of workloads at the server level definitely has a storage impact - performance, boot storms, lack of VM visibility, distance from the application.
Dave Vellante
Look at the 'mess' the storage industry had to deal with because of server virtualization http://wikibon.org/wiki/v/VSphere_V5_Storage_Integration_Points
cmosoares
What's best? all-flash? Hybrid?
Kerstin Woods
@cmosoares Hybrid is ideal - flash performance with disk cost-efficiency, within that category ZS3 takes the lead @DGIG
https://go.oracle.com/LP=1427?elqCampaignId=3753
cmosoares
A couple of Wikibon reports point to hybrid, flash-first architectures http://bit.ly/1icydbB http://bit.ly/NYPhn6
Dave Vellante
@drew_bratcher what's your experience with devops in the public cloud - are you concerned about the "noisy neighbor" or other security issues?
Drew Bratcher
security is always a priority at scale, but we have had relatively few issues at this stage. As we increase in size these problems will become more relevant and laying proper groundwork to insure we can handle these issues is a priority.
Drew Bratcher
In respect to the noisy neighbor problem in particular, we have definitely noticed AWS stealing time from some smaller machines we overload occasionally, which can be really annoying, but seems effective at making everyone play nice
Bob Handlin
@drew_bratcher AWS is all about low cost. The next phase here is selecting gear (and yes, we think we have it at Oracle) that can do a lot of consolidation without sacrificing service quality.
Dave Vellante
We had a Peer Incite a while back on the Noisy Neighbor problem - here's the outcome of that http://wikibon.org/wiki/v/Quieting_Noisy_Neighbors_In_Cloud_Services
Bob Handlin
Interesting report, Dave. Another way to handle noisy neighbor is what we did inside Oracle IT. They consolidate 2,300 VMs on a single Oracle ZFS storage box that can handle triple that. This leaves a ton of room for bursts and it's easy.
Chris Ilg
I am curious to understand what are some of the biggest storage challenges with VM mobility?
Dave Vellante
Oracle customers are getting real value out of virtualizing certain apps - In 2011 we said to them "Damn the Torpedoes" and virtualize where it makes sense (and they did) http://wikibon.org/wiki/v/Damn_the_Torpedoes:_Virtualize_Oracle_as_Fast_as_Possible
Damn The Torpedoes: Virtualize Oracle As Fast As Possible - Wikibon
This article discusses the findings of a recent Wikibon study on virtualizing databases.
Oracle Hardware
What applications have you virtualized?
Dave Vellante
maybe you should ask what "crapplications" have you virtualized :-)
Kerstin Woods
It used to be virtualization as a test-case for non-mission critical apps, now it's definitely more mainstream
Jeff Frick
@oraclehardware-> When does the conversation flip from "What should we visualize" to "What can't be virtualized?"
Stuart Miniman
@JeffFrick from a technical perspective there should no longer be any barriers to virtualizing any application. That being said, bare metal isn't going away and there are alternatives (such as PaaS) to server virtualization.
Dave Vellante
@KerstinWoods it's funny to see the industry go full circle - IBM mainframes were/are all virtualized