[LIVE CHAT] Keeping Data Forever

In considering deep archiving in the cloud, Amazon Glacier for example, vs. onsite tape what cost/benefit tradeoffs should you look at?

2 Votes Vote

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Robert Klusman

There is no ROI with large scale cloud storage with out Tape..

4 Votes Vote

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Oracle Hardware

The Rise of the Machines: Rebirth of Tape: http://wikibon.org/wiki/v/Rise_of_the_Machines:_The_Rebirth_of_Tape

Amen to that Robert!

In fact well-known internet companies use tape as the ultimate backup.

4 Votes Vote

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John Furrier

this tape is dead is ridiculous, tape is cheap. A $70-75 list price for LTO-6 works out at about three cents a gigabyte. Consumer-grade 2TB SATA drives are only now starting to approach that sort of price

3 Votes Vote

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John Furrier

@cmosoares the argument most people make is SSD is the way to go but still from the data is more expensive than tape by a mile

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Oracle Hardware

Google reveals TAPE-TASTIC data centre in saucy vid: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/01/28/google_oracle/

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Robert Klusman

I was working with a customer to migrate a DB.. they didn't have enough disk space to make an extra copy.. (it was a big DB).. I convinced them to use our Tape. We wrote 660MB a sec, then read it back @ 735 (only 3 10kc drives..) amazing..

3 Votes Vote

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Oracle Hardware

Do you include factors such as cloud ingest, storage and retrieval (could take several hours), network bandwidth or mail tape/disks vs onsite disk/tape libraries, media, energy, management resources, footprint.

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cmosoares

If you're looking at Glacier, you're not really in a hurry to get your data back (5-6 hour SLA). Hopefully that's not your backup strategy. Probably a good differentiator between backup and archiving.

1 Votes Vote

Oracle Hardware19

Studies show that long-term storage environments using just tape or mixture of disk and tape have lower TCO than all-disk. What’s your experience?

4 Votes Vote

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John Furrier

Periodic backup technologies are well suited for data retention and compliance, but many have issues relying on them for business continuity - HUGE issue to address

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Oracle Hardware

Infographic: http://www.oracle-downloads.com/StorageTekT10000DInfographic/

1 Votes Vote

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Oracle Hardware

DCIG rates Oracle StorageTek SL8500 Tape Library #1 http://www.dcig.com/2014/03/dcig-2014-15-big-data-tape-library-buyers-guide-now-available.html

DCIG 2014-15 Big Data Tape Library Buyer's Guide Now Available - DCIG
DCIG is pleased to announce the availability of its DCIG 2014-15 Big Data Tape Library Buyer's Guide that weights, scores and ranks over 80 features on more than 40 tape libraries from eight (8) different storage providers. Driven by growing corporat...

2 Votes Vote

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Crowd Captain

tape archive solutions are proven to stand the test of time for long term data retention

1 Votes Vote

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Storage Alchemist

@CrowdCaptain - one note, i know we use the word "archiving" to mean many things - i do think its important to note that now w/ new tape technologies such as LTFS, you can use tape for scale-out NAS, cloud, long term retention - many more use cases

3 Votes Vote

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cmosoares

Need to be careful to differentiate between backup and archiving.

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Storage Alchemist

IT needs a balance, Flash/SSD for performance (best $/IOP) and tape for long term retention (best $/GB) - Long live Flape - it will be the middleware tools - getting the data to and fro along w/ metadata mgt tools that drive this success

2 Votes Vote

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Oracle Hardware

LTFS for Dummies: https://go.oracle.com/LP=982/?elqCampaignId=1776

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John Furrier

I expect more activity around data tiering in the cloud with cloud tiers ranging from enterprise-class to archive

1 Votes Vote

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Robert Klusman

That is true -- but it does not require a "Long-Term" The Cheese moved in the Tape world after Oracle got a hold of the StorageTek Assets (via Sun).

1 Votes Vote

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Kerstin Woods

“..not only can we can get it back in a timely and verifiable way, but we can get any version of it back for the user...like a giant time machine,” http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/customers/customersearch/qld-brain-institute-1-storagetek-cs-1981825.html

Customer and Partner Search Queensland Brain Institute Increases Archive Capacity, Supports Limitless Innovation and Increases Data Response Speeds by...
Queensland Brain Institute uses Oracle’s StorageTek SL3000 modular library system and StorageTek T10000C tape drive for an optimized, tiered storage infrastructure to increase storage capacity and data integrity while minimizing cost and data center ...

Looks like things are settled again. Next question: Do you keep long-term archival data onsite? On disk, on tape? Offsite? On a deep cloud archive, such as Amazon Glacier?

3 Votes Vote

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Storage Alchemist

good question - lets 'one up' - how do you know what data to put where?

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Robert Klusman

What I really find odd - is I rarely find customers who balance the MTBF times against how long they want to keep data on a given media..

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Stuart Miniman

is archiving still just an insurance for recovery in catastrophic failure or are more customers finding ways to get value from the "data lake" through analytics, etc?

1 Votes Vote

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Oracle Hardware

Here are Wikibon's pros and cons for using Amazon: http://wikibon.org/wiki/v/Cloud_Computing_2013:_The_Amazon_Gorilla_Invades_the_Enterprise

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Storage Alchemist

@oraclehardware also, data movement is the most expensive thing in the enterprise, if that is the case, what is the most economical way to move data around?

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Crowd Captain

I find many want online vs tape where it's a "green field" and tape for where they have existing processes

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Storage Alchemist

@CrowdCaptain today w/ LTFS you can have data "on tape" AND "on-line"

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Storage Alchemist

@stu archiving is archiving - backup (to a secondary device or medium) is used for catastrophic failure

3 Votes Vote

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Kerstin Woods

I like that report already posted below - it really raises the fact this is a multi-million dollar question with tape worthy of consideration. http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/analystreports/industries/clipper-tco-storage-2013-1959019.pdf

2 Votes Vote

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cmosoares

A tiered architecture (D2D2T) provides lots of flexibility for where to put data

1 Votes Vote

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cmosoares

Oracle Database 12c with ADO+HCC gives you policy-based data placement and different compression levels for hot vs. aged data.

2 Votes Vote

Robert Klusman0

Sorry guys - I'm having Browser issues for some reason. my end keeps locking when I try to post.. I'll keep trying

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Me too.

same here. try logging out and back in or with a different browser

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John Furrier

I am seeing the same thing..lets me look at system

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John Furrier

I am restarting - hold on for one minute

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Crowd Captain

I have restarted the code so we should be up and normal operations now

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John Furrier

If anyone is having issues try relogging in again

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Crowd Captain

we are back up again - refresh and log out & log in if you're having trouble

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Crowd Captain

sorry for the hiccup AWS was down

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John Furrier

btw: for the folks geeking out at home we found the hiccup it was the elastic cache on AWS autoscaling which is now resolved - thank you for being patient with our real time system; Cheers

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Oracle Hardware2

Are there regulatory or legal requirements or industry/company best practices that you follow for data retention?

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John Furrier

there are huge data protection regulations around privacy. Esp in the EU. Breaching data protection is something to pay attention too

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John Furrier

The British Pregnancy Advice Service (BPAS) fined £200,000 after a serious breach of the Data Protection Act revealed thousands of people http://ico.org.uk/news/latest_news/2014/british-pregnancy-advice-service-fined-200000-07032014

British Pregnancy Advice Service fined £200,000 | ICO news release
The UK’s independent authority set up to uphold information rights in the public interest, promoting openness by public bodies and data privacy for individuals.

1 Votes Vote

Oracle Hardware6

Many companies are now keeping data practically forever. Does your company have a policy for long-term data retention? For how long? How secure? WORM requirements?

3 Votes Vote

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Storage Alchemist

the question is or will become, with the growth of data, how can I ensure that I am moving it to the right device? it comes down to data classification which we still can't seem to get our hands around today

3 Votes Vote

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John Furrier

Data is the new oil and storage of data is becoming free it's the data retention which is costly $$$$

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Oracle Hardware14

So let's get things started. Data has a short shelf life. It’s rarely or never touched after 90 days. Is managing old data a big issue for your company? How do you deal with it?

3 Votes Vote

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Robert Klusman

Most of the customers I find - are literally scared of their aged data.. And the steer clear of it.. (leaving it in place).

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Oracle Hardware

What makes them scared of their aged data?

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John Furrier

one issue is the policy of the data will be reused and what about security

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Kerstin Woods

With many advancements in data analysis, companies are considering the future untapped value in historical data and forever-retention is becoming a reality.

1 Votes Vote

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Storage Alchemist

if they move it, then need it again and can't find it because something "happened" they are in trouble

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cmosoares

Do these customers just keep the old data on primary disk?

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Chris Ilg

If they leave their aged data in place they are consuming expensive storage resources and can reduce their overall storage costs and RECLAIM disk space by migrating aged data to highly economical tape storage

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Robert Klusman

From talking to customers, the fear sits between Legal worries - and them just not having an official company policy about how to handle aged data

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Oracle Hardware

what technologies exist to help organizations keep track of their aged data if/when it "moves"?

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Storage Alchemist

@KerstinWoods I buy the data analytic play all day long, @dvellante

1 Votes Vote

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cmosoares

@Clipper Group study showed that disk-only long-term storage cost 26X more than tape
http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/analystreports/industries/clipper-tco-storage-2013-1959019.pdf

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@Clipper Group study showed that disk-only long-term storage cost 26X more than tape
http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/analystreports/industries/clipper-tco-storage-2013-1959019.pdf

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Storage Alchemist

@KerstinWoods I buy the data analytics play all day long, @dvellante what about companies that are not in any sort of compliant business - there are more of that that have long term data storage needs....

1 Votes Vote

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cmosoares

Clipper Group study showed that disk-only long-term storage cost 26X more than tape
http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/analystreports/industries/clipper-tco-storage-2013-1959019.pdf

1 Votes Vote

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Storage Alchemist

I believe that even thought LTFS is relatively new to the space, it really helps customers leverage the use of tape in a much more economical way...

0 Votes Vote

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cmosoares

@oraclehardwareClipper Group study showed that disk-only long-term storage cost 26X more than tape
http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/analystreports/industries/clipper-tco-storage-2013-1959019.pdf