Stuart Miniman35
Via @nigelpoulton "I'm keen for thoughts on what is being done to improve simplicity for more than just spinning up a cluster? And related.... is the job of making #K8s simple the job of the core project or the ecosystem"
Sebastien Goasguen
there are lots of tools for application management out there, 70+ and definitely the goal is to make onboarding devs much easier. Helm is one for sure, kustomize is another great little tool
Gabe Monroy
we have a lot left to go in simplifying k8s for devs and operators. i feel very strongly that this should be done outside of k8s core, which is not a developer tool.
Tom Phelan
agreed. k8s is a platform
Tim Hockin
This is a tough one. There's some inherent complexity in the problem domain
and I am always wary of anyone who says they can paper over it. That said, we
have historically tended to err on the side of "exposed ductwork" in
Kubernetes. I get a lot of feedback from peopl
and I am always wary of anyone who says they can paper over it. That said, we
have historically tended to err on the side of "exposed ductwork" in
Kubernetes. I get a lot of feedback from peopl
Brian Gracely
Operator Framework will significantly help with Day1/Day2 deployments of applications on Kubernetes.
Tim Hockin
e who want MORE configurability
in kubernetes, which is antithetical to simplicity in many ways. I think we've
done an OK job building higher levels of abstraction (Deployment > Pod) but
there's more to do. It's not clear whether those higher layers are "part of"
k8s o
in kubernetes, which is antithetical to simplicity in many ways. I think we've
done an OK job building higher levels of abstraction (Deployment > Pod) but
there's more to do. It's not clear whether those higher layers are "part of"
k8s o
Stuart Miniman
@gabrtv well said, and addresses another of @nigelpoulton comment that he is worried about scope creep. Balance of what is in the core vs too many ancillary projects. I do consistently hear that #k8s is "hard" and that "victory" is often just getting it running.
Gabe Monroy
nailing simplicity requires a deep understanding of user personas. k8s is not designed for use by developers, but by operators. a lot of failed attempts at simplicity can be tied back to this misunderstanding.
Nigel Poulton
I think the *getting K8s* running is waaaaay simpler these days. One cloud platforms we can just ask for a cluster and get one. That's a real score! But...... then there's so much more complexity if doing it the right way - pod resource requests, HPAs... just to name some
Nigel Poulton
I still feel like running K8s properly for production is a large mountain to climb. And one where the rapid development of the core product makes it a fast-moving target.
Tim Hockin
@thockin r ecosystem, though. I lean towards ecosystem.
Nigel Poulton
@gabrtv Agree with that Gabe!
Tim Hockin
@nigelpoulton There are a lot of concepts, but many/most are orthogonal and additive. Making FULL use of k8s should not be the day-1 goal - find ways where it can help you achieve your goals.
Stuart Miniman
@nigelpoulton had to run, but asked: Is there a future on self-provisioned on-prem K8s clusters (will the tooling etc be developed going fwd) or is the more likely future on-prem managed by cloud. E.g. GKE On-prem?
Tim Hockin
K8s is in the "awkward adolescence" stage - I think it will get simpler and more robust as it matures, but it's still experiencing painful growth spurts right now, and still has a fair number of "blemishes"
