LocalData

Tiering to Public Cloud
How to think about and manage tiering from the private data center to public cloud.
   7 years ago
#localdataManaging Billions of FilesWhat kinds of data management & backup challenges creep up when your NAS gets to billions of files?
   7 years ago
#LocalDataScale-out ArchitecturesCurrent state of scale-out technologies and where we can go from here.
John Furrier
Q6: Describe technical implementation of hybrid clouds you are seeing. What components are involved? Has this changed in the last 6 months?
Andrew Miller
several main areas - 1) some level of automation/orchestration, 2) focus on common data movement/management tools between on/off-premises, 3) tools for visibility into all environments
jeff dinisco
some appliances make it ez, @rubrikinc and @dellEMCIsilon have great stories here
Andrew Miller
for #2 there are notable developments in the last 6 months even...while data has weight, there are more options around handling it between public/private clouds
Keith Townsend - Light will overcome darkness
Look toward the shift in OpenStack. There's no single pane of glass for Hybrid Cloud. It's understanding the unique challenges between the two environments. The focus needs to be on monitoring and ops technologies that integrate vs orchestration.
John Furrier
Followup Question on this topic: does #multicloud impact any of this or is that fantasy at this point
Chris Dagdigian
identity mgmt needs to be solved first. After that comes orchestration, automation and workflow routing/shaping logic
jeff dinisco
for compute, AWS Management Portal for vCenter and @ZeroStackInc have decent stories
Stephen Pao
@chris_dag Agree on identity management for user facing apps. It's why I think early hybrid cloud is IT-facing / back office.
John Furrier
I would be interested in the impact to backup/recovery bc in cloud there aren't the 4-walls of onprem
Keith Townsend - Light will overcome darkness
Your favorite topic! 😀 I think today they are silos. But they play a factor in containerizing operations so that you can manage your IT regardless of platform.
Andrew Miller
@dinisco Ironically this kind of thing is the whole focus of Rubrik
Andrew Miller
@CTOAdvisor +100 - often integration of multiple point solutions vs. the hoped for "single pane of glass" that never really seems to work out
Stephen Pao
#multicloud seems to be driven by different workloads. Azure good with identity; Google for AI/media; AWS overall.
Andrew Miller
are seeing the very beginnings of #multicloud with some of our customers...enabled by data sync/management that can handle multiple clouds. If don't have that, the operational overhead is too high.
Keith Townsend - Light will overcome darkness
@andriven I think there's little hope for a single API let alone a single operations platform. HPE showed a vision with NewStack but it's a vision.
Stephen Pao
@dinisco Also, @IgneousIO focus on hybrid storage cloud! 😀
I am John White
If you don't have a common data, network, and control plane you have note achieved true hybrid cloud. You simply have individual pools of resources.
Stephen Pao
@johna_white Agree. However, you can scope the commonality for an app or a group of apps at a time.
Andrew Miller
@CTOAdvisor Hopefully we get the point of multiple robust API's...so API's are a unifying approach but not a single API per se. At that point external engines can drive everything at least...
JP Morgenthal
The recommendation for multi-cloud is coming from the need to leverage specialized clouds with generic cloud providers, e.g. AWS or Azure front-end for GE Predix
John Furrier
Q5: Do you see the ongoing use of data center storage and computing equipment on the premises?
Andrew Miller
Yes if have sunk cost - likely not growing for most businesses though. Back to the "Cloud First but not Cloud Only" focus we're starting to see.
Andrew Miller
if you're a new business, the odds that you stand up a datacenter are close to zero though.
Chris Dagdigian
100% yes. Refer back to the ROI math on 1PB of data in AWS NFS vs doing it on-premise. The first time a client gets a $250K storage bill they start rethinking things. Tons of use cases for on-premise storage and infrastructure still
Stuart Miniman
major changes in storage usage take time. Would be great to end the burden of storage migration (Wikibon estimates > 1/3 of TCO). Storage is becoming less of an emphasis - all about data
jeff dinisco
yes, cloud still not cost competitive at PB scale
Keith Townsend - Light will overcome darkness
Yes - more or less. There will be orgs that go all cloud. If you are 100% x86/virtualized, there's a strong argument for all public cloud. However if you have a complex business and need for legacy platforms it's not as simple.
Stephen Pao
Agree with @chris_dag and @dinisco. Datacenter can still provides lower TCO at scale.
Keith Townsend - Light will overcome darkness
There's also the factor of control. Even born in the cloud companies moved to back to all private cloud. Just as data center strategies are revisited every 5 years or so, public vs. private should be revisited as business dictates.
jeff dinisco
@chris_dag exactly, I'd also argue that a customer loses all leverage once they get to multiple PBs in a single cloud
Andrew Miller
@stu very, very much about the data and even more about application-centric models
Andrew Miller
@CTOAdvisor are there Cobol cloud providers? :P
Keith Townsend - Light will overcome darkness
If you have world class operations for a mission critical app, what's the value prop to moving it to the cloud? Save a couple $MM on depreciation but lose a core competence? Not an easy answer.
Andrew Miller
@steve_pao absolutely lower cost at scale...but for any new customer they won't get to that scale quickly. For existing customers a new application or environment could be incrementally less expensive if forklift upgrades are required to handle.
Stephen Pao
@CTOAdvisor And beyond competence is liability. You can outsource ops but you can't outsource liability.
John Furrier
Q4 was great now on to easy one with Q5
John Furrier
Q4: What data types are involved in hybrid cloud and cloud tiering? Server backups? SQL databases? NoSQL databases? Unstructured data?
jeff dinisco
structured data a good fit with services like AWS RDS, unstructured a good fit when app can leverage or tier to object
Stephen Pao
@datosIO has an interesting backup app for NoSQL database to cloud and S3 API.
John Furrier
@steve_pao This is very interesting bc it's hard for me at least to figure out which one is growing the fastest bc all are relevant
Chris Dagdigian
vast piles of unstructured data mostly in my world
Stephen Pao
Our focus at @IgneousIO has been helping folks with billions of files.
Andrew Miller
Depending on the customer, see all of them...but largely backups and the archive use case - long term retention where don't want to deal with tape.
Keith Townsend - Light will overcome darkness
All of they above. Archive data has elements of all the data types. However, I see companies focused on parts of the distributed application. Look at ML/AI. You'd never do it in the DC. What type of data is ML & AI in the cloud?
Stephen Pao
Unstructured data is just a bigger % of data. 79% according to IDC and validated by customers.
Andrew Miller
Getting past "checkbox" regulation compliance...with tapes after 5 years who knows if can really restore much less move to new tape media (new LTO formats!).
John Furrier
Tape use case sounds compelling for moving to cloud
Andrew Miller
And lots of test/dev which defies any data type categorization...whatever is inside the "VM container" if you will.
jeff dinisco
file data still a huge challenge on cost, 1PB of NFS in AWS is $65K/month, can show ROI on that with on-prem system in < 1 year
Keith Townsend - Light will overcome darkness
If I decide to deploy HANA in AWS based on elastic compute then it will be structured data. If I want to use cheap and deep storage for AI/ML then it may be unstructured. It gets to the value prop of public cloud for your hybrid cloud use case.
Andrew Miller
@dinisco we've had cloud file gateways around for a while but adoption still seems to be mixed...people get nervous about the potential lack of performance predictability for "stubbed data"
John Furrier
Followup Question: is this an operational efficiency issue or re-platforming motivation?
Andrew Miller
@andriven with using cloud for archive it's still "on disk" and if done right both can keep a catalog plus selectively restore (not pull back a 100 GB vmdk when just need a 100 KB file)
Stephen Pao
Definitely relevancy in all data types. However, noSQL and unstructured seem to growing faster than SQL.
jeff dinisco
@andriven yup, have yet to see one takeoff, avere, nasuni, you name it, thought isilon cloud pools would get more traction, haven't seen it
Andrew Miller
there's hope that using cloud for certain data types will avoid "data migration" due to changing underlying physical media types (new LTO versions, storage array upgrades)
Keith Townsend - Light will overcome darkness
The hard question - Do you need an hybrid cloud data strategy or better yet a global hybrid cloud file system. @dfloyer talk about this concept a lot. I tend to side with him that enterprise need to think through the distributed hybrid FS.
Andrew Miller
@andriven I had customers hoping that with Isilon or VPLEX or other tech (none of them bad per se) but often didn't work out come the refresh cycle.
Stephen Pao
Interesting to see what #gcp #cloudspanner will do to affect hybrid cloud SQL adoption.
Andrew Miller
often cost avoidance...storage is still a big line item but gets more scrutiny every budget cycle due to its size. You have to have options if get pressed harder than last year's budget cycle.
Stephen Pao
@dinisco Problem with stuff like Isilon Cloudpools is that the user experience isn't good when you try to "transparently" stub.
Chris Harney
It will be a long time before local data disappears.
Chris Harney
Companies don't want Cloud vendor lock in. They want their data to be portable
Stephen Pao
@csharney We have also heard the concerns of cloud vendor lock-in.
Chris Harney
@CTOAdvisor agree with mission critical apps, but what about commodity apps O365
Chris Harney
@dinisco Agreed, most of the CI vendors are making it ez
Chris Harney
@steve_pao @chris_dag is there a bigger opportunity for hosted rather than cloud?
Chris Harney
yes, after you move all in, how do you get that data out and move it some where else or what happens when you are given a 30 day notice
Keith Townsend - Light will overcome darkness
@csharney Seems like a no brainer at this point other than the licensing fight.