EMCCloud

those instances would be unavailable. Your ability to resurrect them depends wholly on your architecture. But cloud advocates cattle over pets.

That depends on how you created that instance. Heat has ways to deal with this using Ceilometer and autoscaling. There's also PaaS.

also application architecture has a tremendous impact on what effect the outage will have

It's assumed that app owner is responsible 4 handling failures.

If you have a single compute node with local storage, they die. If you have shared storage, you can likely resurrect elsewhere.

most of the hypervisors support some form of vm migration - live or not depends on other architectural choices like shared storage

The loss of a VM != loss of service necessarily

This brings up an interesting ops question - should OpenStack pivot 2 provide HA 4 traditional enterprise apps?

@craig_tracey Agreed. But instead of using KVM as hypervisor. if i use vCenter (ESXi) and integrate OpenStack. would that make a high available solution?

@hui_kenneth If it doesn't, the people who want to run traditional enterprise apps CANNOT move.... you always have vmware with vmotion underneith though.

@craig_tracey If you use vCenter then you could leverage vMotion, HA, etc. to make the instance resilient.

again, that all boils down to your architecture. For me, relying on a hypervisor to provide "reliability" is not an option. The application itself needs to be fault tolerant and cloud aware.

@hui_kenneth #OpenStack lets the architect/deployer choose what level of availability there is. I usually advocate application resiliency over redundant infra, but some policies require it.

@craig_tracey Many "COTS" software cannot be configured w/o much IT pain. Those are the apps that have the toughest time becoming "cloud ready" unless you stick them on VSphere with VMotion

I can guarantee that the most heavily utilized web services on the planet are not migrating failed VM's.

@craig_tracey @seanmwinn Agreed, but depending on the use-case the user may not always have access to modify app. This is the duality of OpenStack use cases.

@relaxed137 Yes its a shared storage from dedicated storage nodes and also in my example its multiple compute nodes.

@relaxed137 @craig_tracey What are ur thoughts on vSphere with OpenStack & with VIO, VMware's OpenStack distro?

@ShamailXD 100% agree. But this is why folks need to stop considering lift and shift of legacy apps.

@relaxed137 Aren't there growing number of tools to help with the transition?

@hui_kenneth i'm not a fan of 'vendor' distro unless you are willing to go "all in" with that distro and make it meet your needs. sometimes you have to adjust your business process rather than adjusting your cloud. It depends on if you have devs and ops.

@DavidMPollack absolutely! OpenStack even has an attempt or 10 at this sort of thing. My bets are are Cloud Foundry at the moment.

@craig_tracey I see users making that decision but we need to, as a community, help them understand the decision.

@ShamailXD But can i eliminate this by using ESXi hypervisor?

@ShamailXD Great as a community, but it sure does hurt when EMC or others step to plate from business driving perspective

@DavidMPollack sure there are and often the "Tech Fighting" is the hardest to overcome. There are still people who don't think workloads can be 'virtualized' and god forbid if we ever talk 'cloud'. remember its just servers, cpu, and ram

You have to use vCenter along with ESXi to leverage the VMware drivers.

@craig_tracey yes, but if someone wants to use the Instance just as a server and he/she plans to run a application of their choice would using ESXi or Citrix help to achieve 99 % availability of instances.

@hui_kenneth Yes i think if we use ESXi or citrix the environment becomes redundant and highly available from the infrastructure perspective.

@ShamailXD yes, vCenter provides good high availability features for a traditional DC. but if OpenStack is used on top of vCenter are we making OpenStack highly available because of the underlying infrastructure?

There are different layers that you need HA. The API, the meta-data, the actual data plane, etc. In this case, you would be accounting for data plane HA and not necessarily the others.

@ShamailXD Thank you!

I have likened OpenStack to a modern day rube goldberg machine - lots of loosely coupled moving parts. Operating it open requires teams that are both broad and deep.

Finding operators is still the hardest challenge in my opinion - so many skills to master!

Technical issues, mind set, budgets, ecosystem robustness?

@craig_tracey often*

People who can troubleshoot. When its broken, its pretty broken. that's not acceptable to a large company. There's lots of VMWARE people in the world, and not enough OPENSTACK people to go around yet

How do we address the skills gap?

Lack of professional resources biggest issue at carriers?

@relaxed137 How do we turn VMware ops ppl into OpenStack ops ppl?

metering and networking at scale are not easy to solve. It's getting there but still needs care to configure correctly.

@relaxed137 @seanmwinn Operators and Architects are clearly in demand. http://www.openstack... is proof. :-)

@hui_kenneth think the skills gap extends even into the overcloud. Still many operators who are not even cloud (forget openstack) users, let alone operators.

@hui_kenneth I think companies need to build a culture internally and foster innovation and enthusiasm, otherwise you're just trying to steal people away from the same companies you'll need to work with down the road

OpenStack is only part of the service ... Subbu’s “OpenStack is not a cloud” gives good examples where a service needs much more (http://www.slideshar...)

@hui_kenneth Well, I think you have to pinpoint skill sets. compare and contrast features and then teach them how to do it in the 'other place' for example. vmotion is 'click' in VCenter and 'this and that' in OPENSTACK. then people will start to get it

Is training job for likes of Mirantis and Red Hat? Or by community?

Tim Bell from CERN on here. Great to see you sharing with the community.

@seanmwinn Sage advice

@seanmwinn totally agree! We have watched the same people move from OpenStack company to OpenStack company. I think making OpenStack easier to swallow is the first step at bringing more folks into the community.

@noggin143 Excellent point, the swhat's 'not in the box' is even more important. Systems, storage, virtualization, networking. The day of the generalist is back.

@DavidMPollack At some point someone will make an 'openstack 101' that knocks it out of the park. who does that is up to the doers.

@relaxed137 Challenge accepted :)

@DavidMPollack I think the community will do it but as @relaxed137 said the source of that material is whoever steps up. Here is a good starting point: http://docs.openstac...