APMChat

Let's chat about APM!
Do you work in application development or performance monitoring? Join us for a fun chat about APM.
   6 years ago
#APMChatWhat's new in APM?Do you work in application development or performance monitoring? Join us for another chat about APM
IBM Service Mgmt
Q1: How do you think SaaS and the cloud are impacting the application development and monitoring industry?
Marvin Goodman
It's now practical for application developers to be their own overlords, and not be beholden to sysadmins that restrain them with their antiquated policies!
David Metcalfe
I think its given them both a wake up call, especially the IT departments. LOB has so much more power and choice now with SaaS and Cloud
GetApp
A.1 It´s of course changed the business enabling that you really can guarantee 99.9% uptime, from anywhere
IBM Service Mgmt
True, freedom to leave your desk and monitor activity from mobile devices is a huge plus!
David Metcalfe
IT departments have got to change and become more agile, responsive else they will get left behind. SaaS and Cloud are not only changing business dynamics but also the IT and Operational functions
Jennifer Kuvlesky
I wonder if SaaS will exacerbate monitoring tool sprawl. #apmchat
David Metcalfe
Good point Jennifer and we see that now!
Marvin Goodman
SaaS and cloud-based monitoring tools make it feasible for an application developer/owner to monitor his own apps, without having to engage IT to deploy a complex solution in the data center
Jennifer Kuvlesky
Right, but in production, getting to RCA is more complex than just viewing the app server/code issues
David Metcalfe
Yes and therein lies the power shift, but there still needs to be a semblance of order - change and config management for example
Marvin Goodman
Agreed. But the new trend is to break down complex applications into nimble user front-ends that can be updated frequently while using APIs to connect to back-end systems. By changing only the UI portions, RCA is more within the domain of appdev
Marvin Goodman
If they're never changing the APIs that connect to systems of record, root cause is likely a UI change that they themselves have made, and Cloud appdev environments let them iterate on those quickly to fix them.
Jennifer Kuvlesky
Has anyone seen research on how often the issue is in the code vs the underlying infrastructure? #apmchat
Tim Bouhour
That would be very interesting information indeed... And to bring it back to the cloud, the more you virtualize the less you know! Think of PaaS, any third-party service you are using could also be a culprit and would be out of your control
IBM Service Mgmt
Q9: Last question: What advice do you have for people interested in working in APM?
Tim Bouhour
Don't do it, the hours suck :D
David Metcalfe
@TimBouhour I agree and grow a thick skin ;-)
IBM Service Mgmt
Ha @TimBouhour I think that's pretty universal for all tech jobs.
Marvin Goodman
Study programming, even if you're not writing the apps. Understanding how they work is essential to understanding their performance. At the same time, go out on sales and support calls. You HAVE to spend time with customers to feel their pain
Tim Bouhour
@marvingoodman understanding the market and users is key... And the trouble is, the APM of today is used not only by Operations, but also by Development and the Line of Business! Get to know how they work together and where APM can help them
IBM Service Mgmt
Thank you for joining #APMChat and sharing your expertise and insight. Follow @IBMTivoli tomorrow for hourly fun facts about apps and APM. We're leaving the chat open for 15 more minutes so feel free to keep chatting! http://ibm.co/1qiIWy...
Performance Management | Learn | IBM Service Engage
Application performance management -- APM SaaS. Data center monitoring, capacity planning, DevOps enabled by hybrid cloud application monitoring solution.
David Metcalfe
Thanks for hosting!
IBM Service Mgmt
Our pleasure, @davidmetcalfe12. We'll try to do this more often!
Tim Bouhour
This was fun, looking forward to the next one!
IBM Service Mgmt
Q7: Which do you prefer-- agent-based or agentless monitoring – or both? Inspired by this blog from @ingoa: http://ibm.co/1BbhOL...
Do you need an agent?
I have been consulting with clients for many years, and there’s one topic that comes up on a regular basis: should IT service management be agent-based or agentless? This can quickly ...
Marvin Goodman
MY personal preference is for agent-based monitoring, now that viable containerization is on the horizon, because I can probe deeper, use less bandwidth for monitoring and embed the agent code in my appdev life cycle
Tim Bouhour
the answer would depend on the use case... Agent based gives you more depth, agentless is easier to manage. However, the real end goal is lightweight, self-deploying, and self-maintaining agents that give you full depth with no effort
David Metcalfe
@marvingoodman I agree and the embed piece is key. Future app dev can really start to assure their apps by embedding agent code and prove to users availability, performance etc
Jennifer Kuvlesky
It depends. Agents can be really time consuming to manage. Agentless systems can be a pain because you need manage authentication and firewall rules. More opinions: http://bit.ly/1sZLjI...
Do you prefer agentless or agent-based monitori... | thwack
When I’m evaluating a monitoring system, one of the first things I check for is if it is agent-based or agentless. The use of one method over another doesn’t necessarily spell disaster for the project in my eyes, but I do admit that I have a preferen...
Marvin Goodman
@JenniferKuvlesk makes an excellent point here. APM vendors have to embrace endpoint management systems, cooperatively, to make it dead simple, hands-free to manage those agents, or the benefits won't be worth it to many.
IBM Service Mgmt
Q6: What do you expect to change in the application industry (developments, monitoring, etc.) that will impact your job?
Marvin Goodman
Two things, certainly: Ever-faster application life cycles creating great risk in launching apps at breakneck speeds; and containerization, with platforms like Docker, to make my applications more portable, allowing me to shop around to host
Tim Bouhour
I expect customers to be more and more unforgiving. Applications will need perfect availability, stellar performance, and a great user experience to succeed in any industry. It will be more and more important to understand your users!
Marvin Goodman
Right, @TimBouhour ... everybody rates your apps nowadays, either literally, or by going somewhere else quickly if they don't like it. LOTS of choices for them now.
David Metcalfe
agree with @marvingoodman and their will be more choice so if one app fails you just go somewhere else
David Metcalfe
@IBMTivoli @marvingoodman do we think we will see apps instrumented to self heal etc or will the future still rely on #apm etc?
Marvin Goodman
@davidmetcalfe12 Good call... but self-healing REALLY takes the form of auto-scaling them, to provide more instances when performance slows down. That's a temporary salve perhaps, but you're trading higher hosting costs
Tim Bouhour
@marvingoodman great point on delivery life cycles. In order to keep apps fresh and meeting customer demand, embracing DevOps and Agile development will be key! #APM can help close the feedback loop between Dev and Ops for better collaboration
Marvin Goodman
Yes, @TimBouhour and @davidmetcalfe12 APM is the key to maintaining those fast life cycles, but still getting down to the nitty gritty of performance problems, all while working within your cloud environment.
Tim Bouhour
@marvingoodman a good auto-scaling service should wal the fine line between optimizing performance and costs... It should scale down as well as up! The key is to feed it #APM data to have it optimize user experience at the lowest cost possible
David Metcalfe
@TimBouhour @marvingoodman Agree and thats a great point regarding the scaling, most people think of up and not down
IBM Service Mgmt
Great responses to Q2, here's Q3: What steps would someone need to take if they don’t use APM to troubleshoot applications?
David Metcalfe
I guess it depends on what you already have in place from a monitoring/management perspective and what SLA/KPI's you have to meet
Marvin Goodman
poring over log files, home-grown scripts to ping their app, sitting by the phone waiting for complaints... Oh... and praying. Lots of praying.
IBM Service Mgmt
Hahaha @marvingoodman that doesn't sound like much fun!
Tim Bouhour
War rooms! Finger pointing! Get everyone from development and operations in a room and lock them in there until the endless bickering leads to the issue being fixed :)
IBM Service Mgmt
Q2: What are the biggest issues you encounter while managing applications?
Marvin Goodman
Oof! as @JenniferKuvlesk pointed out: Seeing a performance problem is easy enough today. Drilling into the root cause can still be a huge challenge.
David Metcalfe
issues/challenges when apps cross organisational or service provider boundaries and the ownership/management debate rages
Jennifer Kuvlesky
@marvingoodman Yes, we often hear from customers that the challenge is proving that it's not their problem, but an issue in another domain (#storage, #virtualization, etc.)
Suvish Viswanathan
Heterogeneity, Complexity of custom-built applications, Managing agents, Managing versions and end-to-end clarity
Tim Bouhour
Application sprawl. One piece in a datacenter, another in a cloud, a third in a PaaS... The infrastructure is all over the place, and getting full visibility is harder and harder!
IBM Service Mgmt
Q8: Our industry changes fast, how do you stay up to date on APM-related content? Publications, blogs, social media, etc. (only one more question after this)
Suvish Viswanathan
I guess the best way to know is by knowing the pulse of your users. There's a lot of hype flying around APM most of the things you may not even need for your business.
Tim Bouhour
@SuvishV how to you keep track of that pulse? Twitter, LinkedIn, certain blogs or sites?
Marvin Goodman
LinkedIn groups, Twitter and blogs, mostly. Hard to keep track of the blogs though... could really use a good clearinghouse with ratings.
IBM Service Mgmt
Ha, thanks @davidmetcalfe12! Great point @SuvishV, its important to consume useful, actionable info.
Suvish Viswanathan
@TimBouhour Yes and probably bring more analytics in place to understand the user behaviour while they are on your applications.
David Metcalfe
@marvingoodman @IBMTivoli had tremendous feedback ref #serviceengage from my customers, we are on a journey with it but so far its good and hitting the spot!
Jennifer Kuvlesky
I use google feeds with keywords. @thwack community is a good source for info also. Forums, customer conversations.
David Metcalfe
@IBMTivoli Its a great question because you can get information overload pretty quickly today, I am quite selective as to what content I read trying to keep up with everything is pretty impossible
IBM Service Mgmt
We're big fans of @Hootsuite keyword monitoring, @APMDigest, LinkedIn forums, SpiceWorks and of course, our blog: http://servicemanage...