CloudNative

it means everything to the believers and nothing to the rest of the sceptical world

I'd say it's way beyond the somewhat overloaded #devops term; I think the core is about building systems designed for multi-tenancy, heterogenous hosting, and scale :)

worse, cloud native is an "I'm better than you, na-nah-na-nah-nah" thumb to the rest of the warriors. not good.

You can do #devops without being #cloudnative.

cloud native was invented by the people who want to lead you to their solutions. it's a marketing term. end of.

is my java app using spring on my web hoster cloud native or not? where is the dividing line? there isn't one, other than "it must run on my platform"

cattle vs pets has nothing to do with cloud native

cloud native = cloud marketing (come on in! the clouds are lovely!)

@GauravSBora I think that it has more to do with application design. For example Cassandra is more #cloudnative than MySQL, it inherently knows how to be replicated

Wow! This is an interesting discussion...

We should ask NIST to define CloudNative - lets sync again in 2025?

Agreed Brendan, I think distributed software is inherently more prepared for the realities of operations in a cloud environment than older setups.

woohoo @cloud_opinion is here!

@brendandburns Scale out vs up maybe another aspect of #cloudnative

@stevie_chambers good question for @wattersjames, as he's now using Cloud Native Java, http://blog.pivotal..... Not sure if it's Cloud Native if not running on Cloud Foundry though?

@GauravSBora also things like immutable infrastructure "rip and replace" upgrade rather than incremental upgrades of snowflake servers inherently expects a #cloudnative environment

i tend to say three things characterize cloud native:

@GauravSBora Yes, I think so. Also cattle vs pets, declarative vs imperative, config as code, services not software, etc.

(1) container packaged -- solves a hard deployment problem, offers better resource isolation, and a higher level of abstraction for better insight

(2) dynamically scheduled -- because there are some things machines do better than people; auto-scaling, health monitoring, resource tuning are one of them

scale up or out? why not both?

(3) micro-services oriented -- more agile systems that can evolve with your environment; decoupling apps and teams; achieving higher code reuse; etc

@brendandburns Agreed, even operational recovery of apps changes from preservation to rebuild new with data recovery

I think it is supposed to mean "not in VMs" ;-)

damn, forgot to switch accounts again.

This is kind of my point. There is a difference in relevance and demand.

busted

@cloud_opinion Um... Not buying it. ;)

there's lots of different aspects to the Google Cloud, if all you want a virtual machine running Windows or Linux you can use Google Compute Engine. If all you want is reliable storage, Google Cloud Storage, or Cloud DNS, etc.

I am cloud opinion

@furrier No, I am @cloud_opinion

We are all @cloud_opinion

@stu I'll take that for a dollar.

we all *have* cloud opinions

weird; I just circumnavigated in 8 days for #GCPNext, talked to 10k+ folks, and the demand is real. Use cases range from complex to simple, but value prop stands up across oldschool and #cloudnative

You say science like it's a bad thing :) But in all seriousness, we want to do two things - meet customers where they are today and help them with the transition to cloud native, at their own pace.

We are working hard to change this. A lot of Google technology has gone mainstream (bigtable -> nosql; mapreduce -> hadoop; cgroups -> Docker). We decided to build this one in the open with the community to make it immediately relevant to business.

> I don't know. Know a few people who spend more time in fly over country instead of flying over
@ImAmyO @Schmarzo

@cloud_opinion is your mum

@njoneja science is a bad thing to a lot of people, don't shoot the messenger :) I am an admirer of Google, met some of their team tonight, but it doesn't mean I'm blind or lacking critique

We fundamentally believe the future of cloud is hybrid, many reasons to run in many different clouds and on premis

> @cmcluck gave us some insight at Google Cloud Platform Live last year.
https://www.youtube....

also, its an evolving ecosystem, we need opinions and contributions from lots of different people.

@brendandburns what is the Google definition of hybrid cloud?

2 heads is better than 1, many hands make light work

run what you want, where you want, efficiently

@bgracely same application running in different places, maybe development and staging is in a cloud provider, but production is still on prem.

We at Google run a lot of open source technology, and have seen first hand the power of the community in building better tech. When we thought about our next cloud product, made sense to start as an open source initiative.

In addition, we think that the future of apps is cloud-native, and contributing k8s to OSS lets us engage the community in creating an ecosystem that accelerates that transition.

cloud native is a product marketing term that few real people support in the field

@stevie_chambers cloud native in the way we use it is technical, not marketing - shorthand for building apps in a way that takes advantage of the unique capabilities of the cloud.

@njoneja when does OSS NOT make sense ?

when you are doing your secret sauce, everything else should be shared (IMHO)

@njoneja what are those unique capabilities, Navneet? It's not a binary thing, right? More a spectrum? And some enterprises have good cloud-like capabilities sans cloud now

Wow, that's a complicated question :) Let's say I don't expect that iOS will go open source.

Absolutely a spectrum and when these capabilities exist on owned and operated infrastructure it makes even more sense to build apps in a way that allows them to take advantage of them. That transition is happening slowly; we want to accelerate it.