Webscalestorage

#Webscale Chat
Scaling storage technology for the Web. Follow sponsor @cohodata for a chance to win a backpack.
Scott Raynovich
Next Q: Biggest Challenges in evaluating management of growing storage workloads? #SDN #storagetech #storage
Coho Data
I think @eric_shanks def sees alot of customers environments to chime in on this as he is on the front lines.
Christopher Wells
To me, a first question to ask is: "What do I do when this box runs out of capacity?"... set-up another island of storage, or just power-on a new node and the increased capacity shows up instantly!
KoolioKev
Purchasing additional tools from the same storage vendor to get a view into the storage I have already purchased!
Christopher Wells
I think no (read: simple) management is better than more management as you continue forward in the storage lifecycle.
dana blouin
@vsamurai_com basically, less is more?
Coho Data
@KoolioKev some storage companies call that innovation..we call that minimum requirement :)
Christopher Wells
Yes, but offer extensibility in the form of APIs so that customers with lots and lots of nodes can manage like a single system.
Forbes Guthrie
@vsamurai_com Exactly. Don't saturate the user. "Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler" - Albert Einstein
Ramana Jonnala
simplicity is key. managing 100 nodes shouldnt be 100 time the complexity of managing a single node
Christopher Wells
I think analytics into your workloads and how they can be optimized is something that becomes important at-scale, as well
Christopher Wells
Need intelligence that helps the consumer and/or manager of the storage resources to respond to bottlenecks automatically and before the problems are visible to end users
Eric Shanks
managing a single element would be important, as well as being able to see where performance issues lie in the IO blender.
dana blouin
@vsamurai_com or react before there is a bottleneck at all, utilize analytics with that intelligence.
KoolioKev
@danablouin This type of intelligence frees me the admin to focus on other things in my environment like the customer need.
Scott Raynovich
@KoolioKev sounds right. To me, possibilities of #analytics strong across all #SDN architectures.
Geoff Wilmington
@KoolioKev The problem I've run into is that I have 5 tools that tell me 5 different things. I then have to piece all that info together to get a true understanding of my workloads
Scott Raynovich
@vWilmo so you are saying you still have lots of manual activity, and would like less
Geoff Wilmington
I think alot of the legacy vendors have tools that many departments use piece meal to get what they need. As a smaller org and smaller staff I need a singular tool to manage it rather than 5.I think that's beneficial no matter how many staff
Scott Raynovich
@vWilmo Also, off-topic, but maybe we need a #craftbeer dicussion some time. Seems big in #webscalestorage
Coho Data
@andywarfield and @Ramanacoho know their beers along with their #webscalestorage :)
KoolioKev
@vWilmo I will agree with you on that point! I am trying to stick with a couple of and pushing vendors to adopt things like vCOPS as the pane of glass.
Tate Cantrell
+1 on #craftbeer I have a 12-pack of Icelandic kr├Žkjuber ale in the overhead bin. Greetings from 10,000 meters BTW.
Scott Raynovich
Okay. Q3. Let's talk #storage drivers. What is pushing the need for #webscale alternatives to traditional storage arrays?
Eric Shanks
Rip and replace is a hassle for Engineers and CapEx becomes non-linear as an expense
Christopher Wells
@eric_shanks I remember when I was a #NetApp customer and we had to pay $50,000 for a data migration. I could almost buy an entire new array for that kind of money!
Forbes Guthrie
traditional storage arrays struggle to cope with new the new technologies. Flash has been a primary driver, as has the consolidation associated with virtualization
Ramana Jonnala
@eric_shanks exactly! thats why no forklift upgrades is a key reqmt
Scott Raynovich
So, interoperability and open-ness is a looming factor.
Christopher Wells
Not only that, but traditional storage arrays cannot scale performance and capacity as dynamically or independently as some of the new #webcsale approaches.
KoolioKev
Cost... Keeping up with the latest technology advances. Why choose a company the bolts on the latest technology instead of designing to take advantage of new tech as it comes available?
Bob Plankers
I second Eric -- roughly linear scaling of costs is a godsend.
Christopher Wells
By interoperability, do you mean APIs? We make a huge effort to share lots of details of our implementation, short of giving away our core IP.
Coho Data
@KoolioKev @eric_shanks @plankers Is linear scaling of costs is definitely a key result of #webscalestorage but also the linear performance and elimination of luns/volumes is key for growth in our eyes
dana blouin
I would have to agree with @KoolioKev cost is always a driving factor.
Scott Raynovich
Sounds like another assault on #legacytech. Let the revolution begin!
Scott Raynovich
I imagine that dropping #flash prices and cheap commodity #storage will be a tailwind here.
Ramana Jonnala
Long overdue in storage ... Coho leading the charge
Christopher Wells
It's pretty cool to be part of company that's innovating instead of adjusting & retooling their legacy code to fit within the modern IT landscape.
Scott Raynovich
As I always say, costs should always scale in linear fashion. But my kids don't listen to this.
Andrew Warfield
Exposing storage APIs is very important. Storage control path should be as inviting and useful as the data path.
KoolioKev
Key word... legacy. We all have the legacy debt in our DC's. Why not plan a future that can grow with you.
Ramana Jonnala
yes, that goes to @KoolioKev point about taking advantage of advances in tech as they happen and not getting stuck in legacy
dana blouin
@vsamurai_com I would imagine it is. That is why I left industry to go back to academia, tired of working for companies that were behind the curve.
dana blouin
Neither does mine...
Coho Data
@KoolioKev Exactly the view @andywarfield and @Ramanacoho share with respect to legacy architectures that require rip and replace. They solved the issues in the past but as workloads/users demands have evolved these systems have not.
Scott Raynovich
Okay. Heard a lot about #cost and #webscale. Lots talk about other #storage benefits. Analytics? Automation?
Coho Data
thats exactly what @andywarfield and team are aiming for. Predicting hot spots, knowing issues that may arise due to IO before they start.
Christopher Wells
Any new webscale offering worth its salt is designed from the ground up for automation, i.e. via REST APIs
KoolioKev
Performance automation. With NetApp We would have to create tiers of storage and move data around to hopefully get better performance. Or over engineer it so we wouldn't hit it at all.
Christopher Wells
As for analytics, I think gathering information into the use cases from key customers is paramount to figuring out decisions that can be made from the data.
Coho Data
many storage vendors mention analytics and automation. But bigger concern is what does the storage do with it, how does it handle this information and put it to work. Most can't and wont touch that aspect.
Andrew Warfield
The performance tools that people use for storage today are unbelievably primitive.
Eric Shanks
Automation is super cool, but it must be easy enough for a storage admin to build quickly. REST APIs require a new skill set for these folks usually.
Christopher Wells
@KoolioKev Been there man! Glad you've come over from the dark side. As a former #NetApp customer and employee I saw it from both sides of the fence...
Andrew Warfield
Understanding and diagnosing a workloads performance problems demand a lot more than IOPS and latency numbers.
Ramana Jonnala
@KoolioKev or over provision to avoid hitting perf problems ... smart analytics should let you provision exactly what you need and use it best
KoolioKev
@vsamurai_com Dark side had cookies... but now I have time to make my own cookies!
Christopher Wells
@eric_shanks True. REST APIs are a starting point. Developing examples using PowerShell and other scripting tools propel it into the mainstream
Andrew Warfield
@eric_shanks Completely agree. REST is like ioctl(). But it's a great substrate for simple libraries/CLis.
Coho Data
the fact that @KoolioKev or any of @eric_shanks customers have to provision or move storage around means more work and #webscalestorage isn't about more work.
Forbes Guthrie
@eric_shanks Yep, I'd rather have intelligent tools that do the right thing, rather than build custom scripts myself if possible.
Geoff Wilmington
Automation is great, but I shouldn't have to automate something because the UI is tough to navigate or cludgy to use. It should be an extension of a system that's already well thought out and easy to use.
Eric Shanks
@andywarfield REST is a great start, but something should be on top of it for easier use by administrators
Coho Data
@eric_shanks What would you suggest on top of REST?
Forbes Guthrie
@eric_shanks What's your preference: native CLI, powershell, python, ...?
Christopher Wells
@eric_shanks REST helps us figure out how customers want to automate and orchestrate. The most popular or useful stuff will undoubtedly live on in other forms
Coho Data
@kellandamm would love to hear your thoughts on this!
Scott Raynovich
HMM. Lots of @netapp bashing here. I wonder if they are listening.
Eric Shanks
@forbesguthrie PoSH would be cool, but how about a simple GUI that allows you to perform something once, and when done copy the REST API to do the same thing?
Coho Data
OH: "Prolly not based on their products"
Forbes Guthrie
@eric_shanks You mean like a Project Onyx type thing? Reminds me of the "reveal codes" window in WordPerfect.